1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
Hey Guest!
The donation button is here.
https://goo.gl/aFggcs

Politics The Donkey in the room...the Democrats today

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    I'd say one thing has been brought forward.
    We have a lesbian and a trans woman both in solid red districts winning by serious margins by doing what?
    Going door to door, paying attention to local issues, being themselves, keeping it local, listening to the people, knowing their neighborhoods, and did I say, local?
    Focus on the people they are serving and the politics will work.
    All politics are identity politics as long as you remember who is next door.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Basically, "two for flinching"
    Or "stop hitting yourself"

    One child is always the aggressor.
    The other protests...

    The Dems have to play hardball, stick to their guns, get into lockstep, spin the same way.
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Sanders promoted false story on reporting Russian trolls

    Sanders is not pure...he's ambitious and has an agenda too...just like any other politician at the forefront.
    I'm a cynic...no one is pure.
    Much is hidden on one side, much is exaggerated on the other. Two sides of the same coin.
    The truth is always unclear.

    Obama, Warren, etc and so on...all those that many people promote as somehow "cleaner" is often doubtful...they're getting their piece of the pie too...they're trying to look "better" too.

    My mindset isn't if a politician is pure ....but whether they are effective for me and the nation
    Do they make productive choices, do they act on our part.
     
  6. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    That's a bit of a false equivalence there. And Sanders is not two sides of the same coin with a lot of people. That's a really bullshit argument that he or Obama or Warren are in the same boat as Cruz or Trump or McConnell or Ryan. You are way off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    No, I'm not saying that they are equivalent of those GOP leaders you mentioned. Those folk have gone way overboard in showing their lack of integrity.
    I'm saying that the "corruption" attributed to others, like say Hillary, and attacking them for some notion of pureness is a strange ideal to have any politician to attain.
    The two sides of the same coin remark was in regards to that clean standard...not a comparison to the currently ugly opposition party.

    I'm simply stating that ambitious people often have a mask and agenda
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  9. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    DNC lawsuit against Trump campaign divides party – but could reveal key facts

    Yes, it does seem like odd timing to bring this lawsuit. If they brought it in October 2016, I could understand. If they brought it up after Mueller found something and is proceeding with a criminal case, I could understand. And while a few people have plead guilty already, I'm not sure what they are trying to gain from this at this time. Are they trying to get into the Wikileaks details, or go after Assange if he leaves London?

    The current administration is tearing the government apart and destroying things that took decades to enact. Policies that were working and 90%+ of people agree with like the Clean Air Act. There is so much corruption and paybacks for donors and supporters to appointments and lawyers that will be changing the government for a long time. But, it is the activists who are watching all of this, yet the party isn't fighting back like they should and putting up a unified resistance.
     
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The court system goes slow, especially for a sitting prez and congressional opposition resistance.
    The Dems are like wanting the bad news to work against the administration and the GOP leading up to the elections this year.
    It really will dig in Sept, Oct and Nov.
     
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The #Resistance Had A Very Good Night

    The Dems' Tea Party??
    I don't know about that...I'll believe it when I see it...over some time.

    The Dems are just not red meat raging and single-minded as the GOP. (at least in volume and overall)

    And do we need more crazy and more extreme thought??

    Sure, it may balance out the crazy on the side and the trend to the right...but at what cost??

    I sometimes feel like I'm a moderate family member watching the extreme extended members arguing it out at a holiday dinner...and holiday after holiday and so on...
     
  12. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    The Dems are not well organized at all. There is nobody really trying to unite the different factions into a "Tea Party", or have a goal of "primarying" the existing moderate Democrat. There is no LPAC (Liberal Political Conference) to inform people, debate, and come up with the best talking points. There are more left-wing podcasts now, but still very few far left wing "conspiracy" type ones to make the regular Democrats look good. (Think "we need to ban the sale and production of all gasoline powered vehicles" and "any one time use plastic has to be biodegradable"). And the DNC and DCCC haven't done much to fix their image or policies.

    I wonder when the race for 2020 will start up. I have a feeling it will be in January 2019, if not before. It will be interesting to see if they can get the airtime on the media and discussion on internet forums away from Trump.

    It’s Time For A New 2020 Democratic Primary Draft!
    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2018, Original Post Date: May 18, 2018 ---
    I also wonder if the Democrats are learning from Trump about how to operate in the first two years after being elected. Obama made some big mistakes by not continuing the political rallies in the deep blue places in 2009 and 2010 among other anti-conservative things that probably wouldn't be Obama's style.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The Newest Deal: Dems build a progressive platform for 2020

    Now, I often say I've got conservative values too...and this is where it comes out.
    I don't know if I could fully support some of these ideas.
    Hell, some haven't even succeeded in the most liberal of nations, like Sweden or the Norway (they've nixed them after experimenting with them)

    I wonder if they're trying to be "anti" conservative...just under principle.
    Or come up with a hard principle to stand on no matter what, like the GOPs "no taxes" mindset.

    I wonder if they'll actually stick to their guns on this??
    The Dems are not known for having a stiff spine and spinning a line again & again until it becomes a mantra.

    How about coming up with BALANCED doable attainable ideas that deal with a current issue.
    Can't we get away from the ideology??

    I know certain dense masses need a "slogan" to get through their heads to vote for someone.
    But if you want to be the "anti" GOP, try being the adults in the room. NOT black & white.
    Use big words, deal complex ideas, shades of grey, hell even color...because that's what the real world is about.

    You want to impress??
    Come up with REAL solutions.
    Discuss it intelligently.
    Then come up with a marketing campaign that explains and sells an idea to everyone, including denser folk. (of which I'm included in at times)

    Don't think up magic and sell it as reality.
    Don't come up with a toy block and sell a block.
    Look at the world, see what's best for the nation and citizens, and and and, etc...what's balanced, fair...DOABLE
    And sell THAT to the masses.

    Obama was a good pragmatist, terrible marketer.
    Trump is a terrible idea guy, great marketer.

    Try both.

    And don't complain that it's hard...the buck stops with you.
    That's why you're elected. To Represent. To Lead.

    Don't try to sell an extreme idea...that's why we're in a mess from the right.
    Be the adults in the room.
     
  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Yeah, they say they want these things, but have no way to implement them or fund them.

    If you are going to provide a Federal job, Medicare, and college tuition, room & books, is it basically just saying that you have to work for your Universal Basic Income?

    The only way I can see any of this working is if they embraced technology 100% and eliminated humans from doing the jobs and management. College is all on-line and can be taught with videos and computerized tests, e-books, a lot of medical checkups and diagnosis can be done by a machine and a little bit of AI, and the Post Office banks would have to be 24/7 ATMs.

    What would they do to actually lower tuition at the colleges instead of just paying whatever the school says to pay? Why are they giving tax breaks to people who have more babies and are causing overpopulation problems (more competition for jobs, more resources, more pollution)?

    I could see the tuition being paid for if their wages were garnished at 8% for the next 5-10 years depending on what college they picked for example. Healthcare costs would be covered if 25% of their assets went to the government upon their death. And the post office bank would have to charge fees and such, but I have purchased money orders from the post office before, and could see that working. But Republicans could implement that one if they wanted to as it won't be a reason people vote for the Democrats or not.
     
  15. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Nebraska
    It's easy: Pass the legislation, then just borrow. The solution for most Dems, and increasingly Republicans as well. Have your cake, eat it too, and kick the can down the road to your kids and grandkids.
     
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Obama: ‘You are right to be concerned’

    Very True - The Dems need to inspire themselves....or even beyond the ACT inspired or not.
    Hell, I work whether inspired or not...if I don't, there's consequences...same reason here.

    This isn't a popularity contest...it's the real deal.
    Same way you pick your doctor - Quality.
    Prevent issues, take care issues, improve you...listen to you.

    Same principle should be for voting.
     
  17. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Part of this is a popularity contest though. And taking to a room of rich donors is not going to be all that is needed to win an election. There is some money that is needed, but there are tactics to make it seem like you have a large group of people supporting the cause as well. Maybe try going to a big stadium and packing it full of people... Besides all of the protest marches that weren't organized around the national party, it doesn't seem like the Democrats are trying very hard. And I'm not sure how well the voters will turnout this November yet either.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    Women's March leader Tamika Mallory defends relationship with Farrakhan

    More naked racism, jew hatred, and support for murderers and violent fanatics from the leaders of the largest part of the left. The very existence of the "alt-left" is still denied and the very mention of it is used as ipso facto proof someone is a literal nazi even, and ESPECIALLY, if they're jewish. This shit is why I left the US. As far as I'm concerned I'm a political refugee.
     
  19. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    It sounds like she is pretty far from a Nazi.
    More like someone who has a bunch of mixed feelings and a lot of growing to do.
    Malcom X changed a lot of his opinions and perspectives towards the end of his life (which was probably what got him killed).
    It seems like this young lady should be given the room to do the same.
    The left isn't organized enough for there to be an alt-left.
    They don't march in lock-step or have YouTube channels where they talk about how the white race is being wiped out.
    They would be perfectly happy to eat their kale and quinoa salads with their universal health care if everyone would leave them along.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists running for Congress as Republicans:

    Arthur Jones, U.S. House candidate, Illinois - Neo-Nazi Arthur Jones wins Republican nomination for Illinois congressional seat

    John Fitzgerald, U.S. House candidate, California - Surprise! A Neo-Nazi Is On California Ballot — As A Republican

    Corey Stewart, U.S. Senate candidate, Virginia - With Corey Stewart atop the ticket, Virginia Republicans are in turmoil

    Paul Nehlen, U.S. House candidate (primary in August for Paul Ryan's seat) - Will Paul Ryan be Replaced with a White Supremacist in Wisconsin?

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio, US Senate candidate, Arizona (primary in August) -
    Joe Arpaio has given at least 5 interviews to an anti-Semitic publication

    There are many more running for state legislatures.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1