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Politics The Politics, Economics, and Ethics of Hunting

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Baraka_Guru, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I can agree that we eat too much of it. Far too much of it. I would like to see a vast reduction of the amount consumed, and more to the point, the abolition of factory farms.

    As for hunting, per se, I still have no issue with it, just as I have no issue with farming animals for consumption per se.

    I know that some would have us give up meat entirely, that is a highly unlikely proposition, but this isn't about taking animal protein out of our diet. It's about hunting.
     
  2. arkana

    arkana Very Tilted

    Location:
    canada
    This is the part I don't understand, and since this is about the ethics of hunting I posit that your reasoning for having "no" issue with hunting is up for discussion.

    Is it that you acknowledge hunting (and farming animals) as a necessary means of nutrition for people, or is it that you actually don't acknowledge the suffering of the animals we eat (and therefor it is "not an issue")? There's a difference between saying you have no issue at all and admitting that it's not ideal but being generally at peace with the killing.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm not that interested in convincing you. I don't think it's that big a stretch.

    Alls I know is the Inuit hunt a lot.

    Poverty in the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  4. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Fair enough.

    I am at peace with killing animals.
     
  5. arkana

    arkana Very Tilted

    Location:
    canada
    But you admit it's a leeeetle stretch. Can't we find out for sure? I just saw two ideas that weren't lining up: Inuit who hunt and poor that hunt because they don't have money. Would Inuit hunt if they had lots of money? I think so! I think it's part of their tradition.

    Now we are two whiteys speculating on what Inuit do. Yay.
     
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's not a stretch for me.

    When so much of their diet is sustenance already, why is it a stretch? It's not like they all always do one or the other either.

    I thought you were above the race card.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  7. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    There are less than 67,000 Inuits in the US and Canada. Depending on whose numbers you believe, there are somewhere around 50,000,000-55,000,000 people below the poverty line in the US and Canada.

    I don't know if I'd take a group that is one-tenth of one percent, that is significantly different geographically, racially, and culturally from the majority of those in poverty, and hold them up as representative of that group.

    If the argument is "people whose culture and traditions are largely based on hunting can continue" I think that is very separate than claiming "hunting is only ok for poor people". I disagree with either, but it seems that maybe the first one is the one actually being attempted?
     
  8. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    Back in June i covered a motorcycle vs elk fatality (how appropriate in this thread). That was the picture taken by the media.
     
  9. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    The one and only time I end up having a picture published was while transporting a guy in custody who decided to go mental I stopped in a banks parking lot and had to reach in a pull him out to apply more restrictive restraints. Some civilian thought the bank had been robbed and snapped a photo showing, basically, my ass sticking out of the back of my unit. It was on the squad room bulletin board for months if not years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  10. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    When I was on fto there was a pic similar to one like that. A guy had managed to run himself over with his own car while drunk, and he was underneath the car wedged against the curb. I had to take pictures so I was bent over. Fortunately the photographer is smart enough not to be close. He doesn't want to cause friction in dealing with us.
     
  11. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    *Liberal hippie newspaper.... mutter, mutter, mutter*

    Word of advice- if the photog does get to close, just frame it and put it on your locker and tell everyone "damn right that's my ass." Takes all the fun out the hazing thus it ends quickly.
     
  12. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    So this is particularly appropriate. I just shot my first deer. A doe had been hit by a car and eas in the roadway. Lying on its side, head up and looking around. Obviously not going anywhere, just waiting to die. Put a shotgun round through its head. A couple had called it in and were on scene. He was in full camo and an orange vest. They were going hunting this morning, were five minutes from their home. Soon as it was dead, I explained they needed a roadkill permit and to take the whole deer, not leave a carcass on the side of the road. I think they could leave a gut pile, I didn't tell them that. They packed it up and drove home. Also they need a road kill permit in 72 hours.
    As far as economics, these people looked middle class, or close to it. Maybe blue collar. But obviously interested in the meat.
    A lot has been mentioned about the poor and the cost of meat vs shopping. I think there aee a couple of other factors for poor. It's a lot cheaper to go hunting than to go to disneyland. Or the beach. And when I have come back from my vacations, I have never had a freezer full of meat. A decent rifle like a savage or old russian rifle can be acquired fairly cheaply and will last forever. Most of these guys already have pickup trucks, so they have the backwoods mobility. So I think those factors, especially the vacation aspect appeals to the blue collar and poor.
    Re indians, subsistence and hunting. I'm pretty sure the indians who run foxwoods casino are not hunting to feed their families. They are probably cashing the big checks and are hunting for pleasure, or for congressional lobbying.
     
  13. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    This statement reminded me of a letter my father wrote when I was very young. My father's side of the family is separated by wealthy, very, and basic middle class. We fell on the middle class side. One January he received a letter and some photos from an uncle, my great uncle who I never met, detailing their Christmas "holiday" in Paris. At the time I vaguely remember my mother and him discussing and laughing about his letter in response. Now this was mid to late 60's and middle class people traveled via Trailways or Greyhound. They didn't fly and they certainly didn't "holiday" in Paris. First time I was ever in a commercial aircraft was on my way to boot camp and didn't buy that ticket, but I would argue that in fact I did pay for it. My father response letter was and is hilarious. I recently read it, my mom's kept it all these years. It starts out, basically like-

    "We had a good Christmas too, was able to hit a deer in the road without too much damage to the old Rambler. So we had meat this year, that was nice. I drained the gas out of the old tractor. So Ma and I managed to get the camper and the boys up to "Niels Creek." Camp sites up there can be found for free in the winter. The first couple nights were a bit cold but I walked down the mountain to the store and got ten newspapers for the price of one. We filled the walls of the camper with the paper and the cold draft was much better...'

    I'm not doing it justice, wish I could post it here, just don't have a copy here. It really is, least to me, funny as hell. I can just imagine the looks on people faces as they read it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  14. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    The brag sheet. Nice turnaround.
     
  15. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    If you look East you can see the Niels (Neals?) Creek area my dad's referencing. If you drive up the South Santiam and take a right or south right before Lyons (there's a Neils Park in Lyons I believe) it'll take you up the Neils Creek area of the Santiam forest. We really did camp up in that area a lot, by age ten I knew that area and it's peaks very. We never went up in the winter, all the access roads were closed by late Nov. Due to my father's polio and his left arm being very small he didn't like to camp in camp grounds around other people so we made out own camp sites near creeks off access roads. We had a family tradition of camping up there on a certain peak every 4th of July, had a great view of far off fireworks from many small towns and Salem. Our actual Christmas tradition, once us kids knew Santa was a myth, was to spend Christmas at the Sea Gypsy at the end of the D river on the beach in Lincoln City. And we always had plenty of meat and anything else we needed. Dad really did drive a old Rambler but never hit any deer, not to my knowledge and we never had any tractor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  16. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
  17. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    I spent most of this afternoon and evening butchering deer with friends.

    Between us we had 5 deer to process. With wives and friends we had about 10-12 of us working on them. It was almost like an assembly line. A couple of us worked on skinning them and removing the meat from the carcasses. Others sorted the best cuts out and trimmed the steaks and roasts. Others took the rest and trimmed it and cleaned it up for grinding. Then we did the grinding and finally made sausage. It was more fun than it sounds considering the work, and we really did a good job of maximizing the yield for everyone, which is important to me for ethical reasons as much as anything.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Plan9 FORMAT C:

    Location:
    This Island Earth
    Yeah, it's ethically delicious.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Eat of the land.
    Not for yuks.