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Vasectomy encouraged?

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by genuinemommy, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:52 PM.

  1. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    Do you think that it should become standard for boys/men to undergo a vasectomy as they reach puberty?

    How would you feel if you were required - by law - to undergo this sort of a medical procedure?
    Would your opinion change if it weren't obligatory - but an option that was presented to you for your convenience and overall health, like a vaccine?

    When you were young, were you ever encouraged to undergo a vasectomy by a medical professional?

    It is legal in many places for girls to have birth control without their parents knowing - Is it even legal for a boy to undergo this procedure without parental consent? I don't see that it is.

    What if we just made vasectomies as commonplace as condoms, and free of charge? Would you be inclined to get a vasectomy?

    Do you think that making vasectomies common, and encouraging young men to get vasectomies, would help them to respect women more, or less?

    I will share my thoughts as people comment. I'm a woman so I feel like I really don't have a say in what men do with their reproductive parts...

    The idea comes from this piece:
    Thread by @designmom: "I’m a mother of six, and a Mormon. I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise. I've been listeni […]"
    Here are some snippets:
    I've been listening to men grandstand about women's reproductive rights, and I'm convinced men actually have zero interest in stopping abortion. Here's why…
    If you want to stop abortion, you need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. And men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies.
    But ALL unwanted pregnancies are caused by the irresponsible ejaculations of men. Period. Don’t believe me? Let me walk you through it. Let’s start with this: women can only get pregnant about 2 days each month. And that’s for a limited number of years.
    That makes 24 days a year a women might get pregnant. But men can _cause_ pregnancy 365 days a year. In fact, if you’re a man who ejaculates multiple times a day, you could cause multiple pregnancies daily. In theory a man could cause 1000+ unwanted pregnancies in just one year.
    Did you know that a man CAN'T get a woman pregnant without having an orgasm? Which means that we can conclude getting a woman pregnant is a pleasurable act for men.
    But did you further know that men CAN get a woman pregnant without HER feeling any pleasure at all? In fact, it’s totally possible for a man to impregnate a woman even while causing her excruciating pain, trauma or horror.
    In contrast, a woman can have non-stop orgasms with or without a partner and never once get herself pregnant. A woman’s orgasm has literally nothing to do with pregnancy or fertility — her clitoris exists not for creating new babies, but simply for pleasure.
    No matter how many orgasms she has, they won’t make her pregnant. Pregnancies can only happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies can only happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.
    Stop protesting at clinics. Stop shaming women. Stop trying to overturn abortion laws. If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply HOLD MEN RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
    What would that look like? What if there was a real and immediate consequence for men who cause an unwanted pregnancy? What kind of consequence would make sense? Should it be as harsh, painful, nauseating, scarring, expensive, risky, and life-altering…
    … as forcing a woman to go through a 9-month unwanted pregnancy?
    In my experience, men really like their testicles. If irresponsible ejaculations were putting their balls at risk, they would stop being irresponsible. Does castration seem like a cruel and unusual punishment? Definitely.
    Can’t wrap your head around a physical punishment for men? Even though you seem to be more than fine with physical punishments for women? Okay. Then how about this prevention idea: At the onset of puberty, all males in the U.S. could be required by law to get a vasectomy.
    Vasectomies are very safe, totally reversible, and about as invasive as an doctor's exam for a woman getting a birth control prescription. There is some soreness afterwards for about 24 hours, but that’s pretty much it for side effects.
    If/when the male becomes a responsible adult, and perhaps finds a mate, if they want to have a baby, the vasectomy can be reversed, and then redone once the childbearing stage is over. And each male can bank their sperm before the vasectomy, just in case.
    It's not that wild of an idea. 80% of males in the U.S. are circumcised, most as babies. And that's not reversible.
    Don’t like my ideas? That’s fine. I’m sure there are better ones. Go ahead and suggest your own ideas. My point is that it’s nonsense to focus on women if you’re trying to get rid of abortions. Abortion is the “cure” for an unwanted pregnancy.
    If you want to stop abortions, you need to prevent the “disease" - meaning, unwanted pregnancies. And the only way to do that, is by focusing on men, because: MEN CAUSE 100% OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES. Or. IRRESPONSIBLE EJACULATIONS BY MEN CAUSE 100% OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM
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  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member Donor

    The idea of reducing abortions by practicing other forms of birth control is a solid one.

    Most of the rest of her comments I find offensive. In the 'Toxic Masculinity' thread posted several days ago I made this comment:

    The way her article is written falls firmly into that final sentence to me. I'd call it toxic feminism. I think it is hateful and misandrous.

    In a consensual sexual relationships the responsibility for birth control should be a joint decision workable by both parties. If both parties are willing, they both share responsibility equally. Rare exceptions may occur if/when a man or woman purposefully might sabotage the birth control (holes in condoms, refusing to pull out, not taking birth control pills while claiming to be on them, etc.). Anyone that has the ability to consent to sex should also be aware it can cause pregnancy. That automatically puts them in shared responsibility for that outcome. Solutions to shouldering that responsibility should be far more reasonable than her suggestions. Forcing any 10 or 11 year old to undergo surgical sterilization is barbaric, as is even suggesting it.

    People like her are why the social divides continue to grow.
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  3. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    Thank you for chiming in, @Borla !
    I do think that you were distracted from the real questions here.

    Would you have chosen at age 18-30 to have a vasectomy if it was common and recommended?

    Do you think this would make men more respectful of women?

    I know that my husband would not. Nor would I expect my brother or my own child to voluntarily sterilize themselves.

    I'm glad that you pointed out the toxicity in the words that I quoted. I brought in the piece because of the extreme viewpoint that it presented. Vasectomies are not always reversible (nor are they always effective), and they do involve surgery, so I can't wrap my mind around it being a reasonable solution.

    That said, I do like the policy of offering chemical sterilization as an option for violent sex offenders. Here is a piece about it.
    Why is chemical castration being used on sex offenders in some countries?
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018 at 9:49 PM
  4. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Vasectomy is fairly common IMO. I have several friends who have done it, usually after at least a couple of kids. I know of 2-3 who have done it in just the last couple years. My wife and I discussed it, and if she strongly felt it was the best option I would definitely consider it.

    If anything I think mass vasectomies would make many men be even more casual in how they treated women, especially sexually. There are at least some men who treat sex, and treatment of the women they have sex with, a little more seriously because pregnancy might occur. Overall I think the impact would be negative rather than positive, albeit by only a small amount, and by men who are already at least latently misogynistic anyway.

    Taking procreative rights away from violent criminals (especially chronic/repeat offenders) is a totally different subject than taking them away from massive groups of innocent people. To me someone with a long, well proven record of such acts, like Larry Nassar for instance, is on the same plane as a person who committed murder.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018 at 8:50 AM
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  5. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    Good points.

    That typo! Ack! I went back to fix it in the original post, but it won't change that quote you made...
  6. michaelyoni64 New Member

    Mmmmm. The female equivalent to a vasectomy is tubule ligation.
    The main use of the pill (correct me) is about regularity of cyckes and reduction of symptoms. The fact that it is a contraception is due to the goings on of the hormones used.

    There are plenty of other options available to reduce the liklihood of an unwanted pregnancy.

    But yes agree it appears the article is more "men hate" & a distortion of the facts. To clsin that an unwanted pregnancy is the man's fault is so primative. Bith need to have coitus to result in pregnancy.

    Might be more like click bait in a way.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
  7. michaelyoni64 New Member

    So this author is a Mormon. God help her if she ever needed an urgent transfusion or transplant.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
  8. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member Donor

    One other comment about the realities of modern birth control. It is obvious that previous decades of research and development was designed primarily around making things easy for men. Those planning, funding, and carrying out the research in the past have largely been men, and undoubtedly this has some impact on the fact that most 'simple' birth control means fall on the woman, only have side effects for the women, etc. That is unfair. But for now it is also reality. There are times in the past where I took primary responsibility for birth control (usually via condom). But the unfair reality is that it is, even according to my wife, much simpler, easier, and more medically effective, to have her take a pill once a day. She's done a lot of research and varied which pill she's used to greatly reduce side effects and find something she is happy with. We've frequently discussed the increased long term risks (even within the past month). There have been stretches where she wanted to take a break from the pill, and I've supported and taken responsibility during that time. We've talked many times about various other options, and occasionally tried them. But at this point in time, especially in a monogamous relationship where STDs are of no concern, all of the most convenient options involve her taking the action. It also means any side effects fall on her too. It's unfair, and the backstory on why that is the case includes sexist undertones, but it is also reality. The best answer would be more research and funding for medical options for men that are not as long term or expensive to reverse as vasectomy.
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  9. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    1 in 10 men in the United States have had a vasectomy.
    In Canada and the UK, there are twice as many.

    So, why do so few men in the United States choose vasectomies?
    • Well, for starters it's not often covered by insurance. Unlike female sterilization, it's not considered preventative care, and was not included in the Affordable Care Act.
    • Men are not informed about their options.
    • Men are not informed about the benefits of vasectomies. Though Men's Journal seems to be trying to tackle this problem, check out this reading: 21 Reasons to Get a Vasectomy
    • Men are concerned that a vasectomy might diminish their sex drive.
    • Men don't realize that these services are available at most doctor's offices as an outpatient procedure, and often for free at Planned Parenthood: Where Can I Buy a Vasectomy & How Much Will It Cost?

    Here are some more related readings:
    Vasectomies: Why U.S. Men Don't Get Them
    What’s stopping American men from getting vasectomies?
  10. Lordeden

    Lordeden Part of the Problem Donor

    Redneckhell, NC
    I asked for a vasectomy at 18. I knew then I didn't want kids and I wanted to do everything I could to prevent an accident (or in my case later on, a girl going off of BC to get pregnant to "keep me").

    My doctor refused to even talk about it and how "I'd grow out of those thoughts".

    I think a lot of it is that people refuse to let people NOT have kids.


    Personally I think we should turn everyone's baby makers off until they prove themselves good enough to be parents (income, stable family, home, ect). That's me tho, people need to stop making so many damn babies.
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