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Violent Crime and Self Defense

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Hektore, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    It's not taking the steps that seems irrational. It's the evangelizing that seems batshit crazy.
    And yes, if you are going to insinuate all sorts of personal deficiencies based on the fact that I don't fancy a particular tool that you're all gung ho about then, yes, you can shut the fuck up. And in return, I will not insist that you are a moron or incapable of caring for yourself if you, i dunno, smoke or drive over the speed limit or eat fatty foods more than once a month. It is like I said earlier, you want your guns, fine, fuck all I care. You want to insist that I should have one, too, then you can, indeed, shove it up your ass.
     
  2. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    I don't think that's what's going on. I don't think anyone here is claiming that contingency planning is irrational. I think that people are objecting to the idea -that has been repeatedly implied by Plan9- that willfully not carrying a gun is the same as not caring about one's personal safety. I think that it can be perfectly rational to carry a gun. I also think that can be perfectly rational to not carry a gun. I don't think that carrying a gun necessarily makes a person safer on average, but I recognize that in individual instances it probably does (and also that in other instances, it probably doesn't).

    I think that people generally do what they think they need to do to feel safe. I also recognize that the perception of safety isn't always the same as the fact of safety. So if carrying a gun makes you feel safe, that's great. I wholly endorse that. If you feel safe without carrying a gun, that's nice too.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Oh, such rudeness from the same crowd that posted 87 times in that ridiculous etiquette thread.
     
  4. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    I think that there are several myths at work here - the myth of the dead-eye shooter in the right place at the right time as well as the myth of the dangerous moron blasting away at the slightest provocation.

    At the end of the day, not all shooters are equal, even if they're the same person. Michael Jordan didn't go out every night and ring up 52 point. Sometimes he did, usually he hit less, sometimes he hit substantially less. So sometimes the right guy in the right place, regardless of whatever training he's had, is going to do exactly the right thing. Sometimes he's not.

    Adding more guns into the mix isn't going to substantially alter the results, in my opinion. Crime will continue to exist - probably petty crime will go down, but maybe not even that.

    The vast majority of folks carrying guns in public - including cops - are responsible and rationally. Occassionally they aren't, though. The only answer to that problem is to change human nature.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    I don't think it's about going out and getting 52 points, man. I think it's about realizing you're in a game where points (sometimes) matter.
     
  6. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Clearly chewing with your mouth open is a worthy of a bullet to the chest. At least that's the leason I take away.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Nah, you missed the part where I'm cramming handguns in everybody's face telling to them to arm up because they're going to get gang raped.

    ...I think I hurt their feelings and made them a little adult-ashamed that they haven't checked the pressure in their car's spare tire recently.

    ...

    And what the fuck is up with your Mr. Sensible w/ No Stats post?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    And I never once said it did (guns are not protective talismans) and or that you wouldn't (miss a shot). For reals.

    As I continue to whack at this dead horse with an effort that is making Fugly lose sleep, it's about putting the odds in your favor. 1% advantage.

    That said, experiment time: I'm not going to carry a gun at all next month. And absolutely nothing is going to happen to me.
     
  9. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    But that's the entire point - being armed does not assure victory in the unlikely (let's face it, on a day-to-day basis, being a victim of a gun worthy crime is unlikely) event that a situation unfolds where a gun is appropriate. It could make things worse. Sometimes you hit what you're firing at, sometimes you miss.
    --- merged: Feb 21, 2012 5:05 PM ---
    That's a shootin'.

    A wise man once told me that I'm an excellent hands-folder.
    --- merged: Feb 21, 2012 5:06 PM ---
    I see I've confused you by arguing for a middle ground.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    /oh hey, end thread
     
  11. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    We need one of those pointed head math wizard guys to give us a nice curve that says "as you approach the likelyhood of physical danger, your likelyhood of being able to responsibly respond with a gun is X". Of course, I'm a well-known idiot so I tend to turn any mathmatical curves I see into boobs.
     
  12. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    But can you do it on a Ti-83?
     
  13. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    No, my brain doesn't have enough wrinkles.
     
  14. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    discussions about weapons systems porn start off with arbitrary projections from the fetishist set about anyone who questions weapon systems porn and end up a bunch of guys who like guns pouting about how misunderstood they are. o look, here come those annoying people who do not find our forms of porn to be attractive. poor us. and this was such wanker fun until those lay-down-and-die pussies came.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Assuming that a person was going to get robbed once in 30 years, the probability that they get robbed on any given day can be approximated by 1/# days in 30 years = 1/10957. If 1 in 9 people are actually robbed (over the span of 30 years) in your location, then your actual probability of getting robbed on any particular day would be closer to 1/(10957 * 9) ~ 0.00001. In Compton, your probability of being robbed in a day would be 0.00003. If you're motivated by statistics, then it stands to reason that you could travel gunless for most of those thirty years without worrying about being unarmed when someone tried to rob you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
     
  17. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    I don't know about you, but rejecting the very concept out of hand seems like a lowering of the level of civil discourse to me.

    Especially when there might actually be a point. But that's me. And I've already outed myself as an idiot.
     
  18. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Bullshit. My rhetorical aim has already killed 17 innocent threads.

    I'll take my crown back, thank you.
     
  19. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    Tell me where exactly in this five pages of posts that you state it is reasonable for a person to not own a gun. And I will take the time after work to point out all of posts where you have stated flat out that people who don't want guns aren't smart enough, responsible enough or don't care enough about their own personal safety. You can't have it both ways.
     
  20. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    i was pretty specific about what i wrote when i first posted to the thread. the central concern was "collateral damage" of vigilante use of firearms in a city situation. i have a real problem with armed suburban people coming into the city imagining that being strapped is going to protect them from their own sense of Danger, when most if not all of that sense follows from making the perceptual adjustments in required for any human being who moves from ambient conditions they're familiar with/adapted to into ambient conditions they're not familiar with. because that's how people are & *that's* closer to a statement about "human nature" than any of this christian horseshit about fallen man and Evil. but i digress.

    and there are actual arguments that could be had about this that would balance localities prerogatives to make things safer for the citizens who live there as over against protection of gun rights in ways that are particular concern for a demographic that does not, in the main, live in the same places.