Watching HBO's "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver"

Hey, we don't tell you how stupid curling is so back off, eh.

 

I wish that were true! A class-action lawsuit could quickly blow up these abuses.

Unfortunately due process requirements and the ban on cruel/unusual punishment have not been interpreted that way.

 

I'm not sure if the snow balling fines and private probation services are a due process violations. Due process is essentially the legal requirement that the government must respect all legal rights owned my an individual. Least that's the way I learned it so many years ago. These folks are not saying they didn't commit the violation(s) simply that they could not afford to pay the fine. You might have a better chance with cruel and unusual but that, to my understanding, has been reserved for physical pain or torture. Of course I'm no attorney and I have not studied the case law but I seriously think cruel and unusual would be a long shot. But I shot I'd like to see someone take. This has become madness and something needs to be done.

 

You are correct, sir.

However, I do recall a case where snowballing fines were the subject of a successful class-action lawsuit. A small village government in Michigan charged an extraordinarily high rate of compound interest per month on unpaid water bills. Perhaps it was exponential? I don't remember the numbers, but a small unpaid bill would quickly run into thousands of dollars.

The village was forced to refund a lot of money, but only to those who joined the class action.

 

Yes, I agree these folks rights are being violated and there's likely some recourse. I just don't think Due Process or Cruel and Unusual are in play here. Again I'm no lawyer, not one day of Law School so I could be wrong. Hell I'd like to be wrong.

 

Well, the one ladies case was brought up on the debtors prison idea.
America decided that idea was unacceptable a very long time ago.
The idea that we might be bringing it back just disgusts me.
Besides the basic idea that it's stupid from a cost prospective, how can anyone live with themselves doing this to another human being?

 

It's a profit thing. Human feelings do not enter into that equation.

 

I agree that there is an issue with the increasing burden on the poor, but the question remains, how do we punish wrongdoers? Do we just get rid of speeding violations and such? I deal with these people too. And their suspended licenses. If these people don't pay or come to court, then they have compounded their problems. They cannot disrespect the legal system. So what is the solution?

 

Three things, I wouldn't contract the process out to a private company - that's up there with private jails, just bad news all way round.
Second, don't put interest on the fine, or extra fees, etc and certainly don't charge them a frelling fee to set up a payment plan because they don't have the money to pay it right away. That's just cold.
On the matter of driving with suspended licenses, many of them are driving to get to work.
Make the license only good during certain hours so they can use it for work but not for going to the bar etc.
The not showing up for court is one that I don't have a serious solution for.
Always did like the idea of putting a bracelet on them that made a piercing noise when it was time to go in until they actually showed up.

We need to come up with systems that make it possible for people to comply not just make it worse.

 

Oh I'm against privatizing a lot of government activities. Like private toll roads we have in this state. Or Chicago selling their parking rights. Or corporate prisons. Or fucking charter schools. Certain things should be held in the control of the government. I don't like red light cameras either. They circumvent the right to confront your accuser. And they are run by corporations who have a vested interest in issuing tickets.

 

To my knowledge that's way Oregon has always done it. I got a ticket, in my state vehicle, for 10 over (violation of basic rule.) Had to write a letter to my supervisor. Go to court, same judge I presented parole violations to every week. She of course asked me what I was thinking and I told her "I was thinking you told me to take Mr. __________ to a treatment in Beaverton and refused to move my afternoon hearing to another day. So simple math meant I couldn't do both and drive the speed limit." At first she looked like she was going to blow a gasket, red face, stern look. For moment I thought I might be phoning my wife from lockup. Then her face changed little and she asked "and you have no one else in your office to do transports." "No, your Honor I am the only State Parole Officer in this county." She raised an eyebrow and asked "Ok, how do you plead." "Guilty." "Ok, ten dollar fine pay the cashier and I will not be seeing you in here again on a matter such as this, correct?" "No your Honor you will not." I walked out of the court room directly to the cashier and wrote a check for ten bucks and left. Done deal deal right? Nope. Turns out the cashier was more interested in her phone conversation, something about who cheated on whom on some Soap Opera then processing my check. She put in on her desk and it end up between her computer and her massive Beanie Baby collection. Six months later I get a call from Human Resources informing me my license is suspended, had been for several months. Turns out they don't like you driving around in a car with a cage and red and blue light in the grill if you're driving illegally. Who knew? I was suspended on the spot, with pay, until they could have a hearing to terminate me. I thought WTF?! My supervisor and the Judges clerk started looking into it. Of course first asking me if I paid it. "Yes, of course. Here's my check book with duplicates of every check I've written in the past year or so." The check was written the day I went to court and the checks before and after it in my book were consistent with the time line. They spent a day and half looking around and asking what happened to my check before they found it buried in a pile of Beanie Babies. I was back to work after three days of paid leave. three days without sleep too. I asked my supervisor if he thought they would have really terminated me. "Yes, yes I do." So after fifteen plus years with no marks on my record I nearly lost my job because some lady was more concerned with a phone conversation about some Soap Opera and was allowed to kept nearly a hundred toy dolls on her desk. For years every time I saw that cashier I had this almost uncontrollable urge to force feed her everyone of those fucking toys.

You'd think a phone call or a letter or something, anything. But nope, just suspend your license without notice.

 

In my state they are only required to send a first class letter of license suspension or cancellation. One of the reasons you are required to update your address within 30 days of moving. We can pull people's records to show that a letter was mailed on a certain day to their current address. Also, when I find someone with a suspension or denial, I issue a proof of service. This way,when they are stopped for the third or fourth or tenth time,the state can point out all the proofs they were issued. With their index finger print on every copy.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said. But there has to be something between just letting scofflaws walk and having people who start with a $45 dollar fine and end up paying some BS private probation company 2 grand and still owe the entire $45. There has to be a better way then that, no?

And civil forfeiture has run a mock in my opinion. About two years ago I was pulled over in Florida while driving from Miami to Orlando. The officer's only question was "How much cash do you have in this vehicle?" Didn't even ask for my license and reg, maybe because it was obviously a rental. I told him "I've got like $45, I have a debt card and credit card if I need to buy something. Who carries cash these days? Like asking to be robbed." $45 was the amount in my wallet but basically I was playing dumb. I knew exactly what he was up to. He stared to ask the other three people in the car, my girlfriend, my Mexican attorney and his wife. I quickly looked at each, stating to my girlfriend "you took out $40 or $60 at the airport, right. He stooped me before I managed to Ask/tell my attorney how much cash he took out. I managed to say "this is my girlfriend, my attorney and his wi..." He stopped me right there and said "I ask the questions and they answer, you I've already asked." So he asked and my attorney answered "I took to $100 when we landed." His wife responded with "I don't manage the cash at all my husband does all that." He looked back at me and just stared for moment or two then stated "So you all are claiming you only have a couple hundred total with you." I told him "yes, we're not from here, we're driving around in a rental car, heck we got lost in Miami due to all the construction. I was a parole officer in Oregon for over twenty years. I'm not driving around south Florida in a rental car full of cash that would just be stupid." He started just glaring at me. I tried to make my face look slightly puzzled but mainly blank. He finally said we could go, even added "have a nice trip." Now had he decided he wanted to search the vehicle, something I might have insisted on a court order for, might not have too. Don't know, glad I didn't have to find out. He would have found at least 4k in my girlfriend carry on and nearly 10K in my attorney's bag, all in the back of a Ford Escape. Mexico is a cash based society. They had no ill intent for their cash, no major drug buys planned. They planned to go shopping at the outlet malls in Orlando, and shop they did. My girlfriend had to buy a another bag just for all the shoes she bought. But I have no doubt if he search that officer would have seized ever dime we had.

This stopping people and taking their cash then telling them they can petition the court for it back if they can prove it's not from an illegal source is just crap. It's flat out the opposite of innocent until proven guilty. Is it not?
--- merged: Mar 27, 2015 at 12:00 AM ---

I'm sorry ma'am. I'll try to do better in the future.

 

Wow, now that sounds like a mess.

How much did you spend resolving it, if I might ask?