1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Politics What is happening????

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    The sickest part is some of these banks used tax monies from their respective "home" countries to be bailed out just so they can continue to be tax havens for those who want to pay as little as possible in taxes and can afford to hide their money.
    --- merged: Jul 23, 2012 at 7:30 PM ---
    wait most of the GOP doesn't give a damn because they believe Obama and the Dems will have gay marriages out number "traditional" marriages, abortion clinics on every street corner and Obama turning us into a Muslim country that will piss off Jesus and God to the point where we will all be destroyed and go to Hell.

    The GOP does this because they cannot run on the true economic and foreign issues our country faces today.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2012
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member


    The explanation can't get any simpler than that.
    "I've got mine, I want more. Who cares what I impact, unless it is me & mine."
    • Like Like x 1
  3. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    Sad but true, even Obama's job czar doesn't care anymore.... and by virtue of who appointed him, Obama himself doesn't give a shit. But until a friend just posted this on Facebook I didn't know about it. No mainstream press coverage, Hell, as far as I have heard not 1 of the Clear Channel/Faux news "reporters" have ever mentioned it. Then again, I don't pay much attention to them to care.

    GE is Moving from Wisconsin.

    Keep your eye on Waukesha, Wisconsin......Their biggest employer just moved out. General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers.

    This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year, but paid no taxes - the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the United States.

    So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs. Thanks Jeff, you're a "real" American....give Barrack our Best! If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President, I don't know what does. Please pass this information to others and think about it before you buy a GE product.

    For Snopes verification of this information, go to:snopes.com: General Electric China Move

    GE did the same thing to Bridgeport, CT, about thirty years ago and the City hasn't yet recovered nor will it in another thirty years.

    snopes.com: General Electric China Move
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    USA, USA, USA... :rolleyes:

    Basically, we need to get our shit together.
    Track crime rise after this... (there will be less cops on the beat too, because of budget cuts)

  5. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    it's not just about greed. that's a subjective attribute that lets institutions and the people who control them---and those who lobby them---all off the hook. greed is the sort of thing that, depending on your view of this fiction we call "human nature," that recurs in a more or less automatic way because people are just like that. the current, obscene state of inequality globally is a direct result of legal choices, which are the direct result of political choices, which are the direct result of convergences of a bankrupt, degenerate ideology (neo-liberalism) with big money lobbyists with intellectually backward people who still imagine nation-states are the horizons of something with a significant technological shift that's made it possible to hide VAST amounts of money in pretend companies or in legal black holes and let it sit there. law that protects secrecy on the part of banks and portfolio managers contribute to this--all the profit of the 50 biggest banks and to the detriment of everyone else.

    this is a fundamental political problem for everything that neo-liberal capitalism has paid idiots to blather about for 40 years. not even the implosion of the derivatives market and accompanying devaluation of the housing bubble in the states--which repeated what happened in japan in the 90s and anticipated what's been happening in spain more recently--that triggered a problem of some magnitude across the whole of the global capitalist order that STILL none of the neo-liberal assholes who run the show have been able to think their way out of so mired are they in the backwater simple-mindedness of their degenerate ideological worldview--not even that has managed to convince any of these people to do anything--at all--about the vast amounts of cash that the system allows to be hidden away, amounts that are genuinely staggering to think on.

    what does 21-30 trillion of anything look like?
    it's unbelievable.

    i just read the tax justice network report on the price of offshore linked above. even as the report is strange--like an endless introduction that skips the report and goes straight to conclusions---what's there is unbelievable, a stark and obvious example of systemic blindness, of wholesale capitulation of even the most basic responsibilities of states in the face of the interests of a vanishingly small percentage of extremely wealthy people.

    read it for yourself. try to get your head around the amounts that are involved and to think about how on earth it was possible that this situation came into being. then remember the ideology that's been running the show in this fading empire for the past decades. then think about what it endorses, what it says is ethical, what that sense of ethics means socially and politically. but i digress.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Quite frankly, I think there is a serious imbalance of criminal vs. civil prosecution.

    There are many cases and situation where there should be criminal action, not just civil.
    Immense loss of money.
    Obvious fraud
    and so on...

    The financial, insurance, medical, commodity, etc...and so on...
    The excess and abuse in all these industries some one should be criminally accountable,
    NOT just civil...with a lack of admission and a relative slap on the wrist. (a 200 million fine may sound large, but not to a Billion annual profit company)

    I'd say what the NCAA is doing to Penn State would be what is balanced.
    If you do something THAT neglectful and manipulative with intent...then there should be severe terms.
    Now if they'd just do something to the banks, etc.
    Without bringing the system down at the same time. (ex. Arthur Anderson...this level of punishment is WAY too few for all the abuse at that level)

    On the other side, there is too many criminal cases when they should be just civil.
    This is typically the opposite, where the little guy with less legal help.
    is crushed by established entities with huge lawyer pools...and overzealous prosecutors looking for "the win".

    I'm sorry, perhaps we need to somehow go beyond the strictures of the Law.
    And start looking at the impact and intent of the issue...and the equivalent nature of the scope & scale of the issue.

    And get the prosecutors to stop looking at the politics.

    Hmm...Lobbyists...tend to be Lawyers.

    I'm beinging to think of a lot of lawyer jokes... :rolleyes:
    Any lawyers out there want to suggest some improvements???
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Another perspective at the low end of $21 trillion:

    It's more than enough money to pay off the external debt of developing nations five times.
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    I agree with this, but I would also suggest that criminal prosecution of the banking/financial services is much more difficult since the repeal of Glass-Steagall -- many of the practices resulting from the now allowable crossover between commercial and investment banking are now legal. (at least that is my lay perspective)

    And Obama's coziness with Wall Street (Geitner and friends in high places) certainly does not instill confidence that criminal actions are being aggressively pursued.

    But, on the other hand, criminal indictments and prosecutions are up, for the most part.

    In order to aggressively hold the banking/financial services industry accountable, the first order of business needs to be stricter laws and regulations.

    We dont need to go beyond the law, we need to strengthen the law.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    I agree whole heartedly.
    They need to bring back aspects of the Glass–Steagall Act.

    There is a reason they enacted it back in 1933, to prevent abuse.
    And the banks & financial industry have shown they still cannot be depended on to self-regulate...the damage done has been PROFOUND.

    In addition, there needs to be a re-doubling of effort and re-enforcement of the Monopoly & Anti-Trust regulations and their intent.

    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    How's this for juxtaposition in asking the question "What is happening?"

    Federal tax rates hit 30-year low in 2009 - chicagotribune.com

    US poverty on track to reach 46-year high; suburbs, underemployed workers, children hit hard - The Washington Post

    I can tell you what isn't happening: trickle-down economics.

    Romney wants to do the following: reduce marginal tax rates, weaken unions, and repeal PPACA. Who is this going to help?

    Is anyone going to help?

    2012 Elections - Salon.com
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    And now....PERHAPS, we may get criminal prosecution,
    for criminal action...

    Banks - The New Mafia??

  12. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Money makes the World Go 'Round...
    The US too...and never more than ever...
    Fortunately, seems to be flowing everywhere, everyway...so it's M.A.D.
    Nukes for EVERYONE! (lots of little green nukes)

  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    Maybe once the big donors see how much of a waste of money it is this time around that an amendment to the constitution can be added to define voting rights and prevent some of the anonymous extremely large contributions, and to stop all of these silly Super-Pacs or 527 groups.
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Don't anyone get me wrong...I'm a capitalist.
    I love to make money, I admire those making money.

    But...I want things to be productive,
    not destructive.

    I like nothing more than to see a great idea or great service...and have it take off and thrive. (Like Apple...or Microsoft...or Google...or even Waste Mgmt)

    But I hate to see waste...or using a system to abuse a point.

    There's two scenarios that play out often these days and have been refined...
    The Leach - Buying a company to dive it into debt, to siphon profits all to investors over time...only to leave a husk to die. (bankrupt and walk away...)
    The Vulture - Buying a company only for its assets, to divide and sell off until nothing is left.

    Now...The Vulture I could see as useful...if not done to a relatively healthy company...but make something of a dead company.
    But the Leach...well, that's just execs & investors taking advantage of the system.
    They don't produce, they don't give, they don't attempt to grow...they just use, bleed dry...walk away. (Vampires...)

    Now, I'm all for having a person get theirs,
    but not at the cost of being productive.

    I want a tool to be used as a tool
    for as long as it lasts and is viable or a better tool is developed.
    And I don't want one surviving beyond its use...just because of political interests.

    But to buy & bust, just for the sake of it....there's just something wrong with the intent in that.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    This article I found...seems to reflect some of the conversations I've been hearing lately.

    • Like Like x 1
  17. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    While many may say this is a projection of the "I've got mine" mentality that has come about.
    I don't see this on the middle-class or lower-class valueset...theirs currently is more, "I'm surviving".

    Perhaps it is dealing with a over-commitment on loans previously made,
    or keeping employment in a more employer centric environ.
    I don't even see it as much from higher-class individual...they have their issues too.

    But it is more from the company comes first mentality from corporate management.
    What is that, just a bit more...we can squeeze out of this...to get better expected profit margins in comparison to last year.
    Not as much innovation...or R&D push...or management is risk-adverse, even to the point of not hiring fast enough for what they are supporting.

    What can we do to get rid of more expensive employees...setup a scenario where we can have cheaper less-experienced staff.
    And even then...have them do more with less.
    While I understand...that this is business...and it has been going on for ages,
    at the moment I think we're in an extreme swing of the "nickle & dime" mindset.

    Customers are "fee'd" to death...to get as much out of them bit by bit.
    Then support staff is whittled away, where "productivity" has gone overboard...and become UNproductive.
    The question is ...when is Corporate management going to "get it"?

    I mean...these are the same people who don't pay more or don't hire more even when they should...
    then wonder why people aren't buying more than the basics.
    (or getting every penny out of their billing...then wondering why people are bitching about their services)

    • Like Like x 1
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    hmm...and another indicator...maybe those early 2000 bets the banks made were wrong...ya think?? :rolleyes:
    of course, everyone buying into credit for everything was stupid too. (myself included...)
    old truism is still true,
    You Play, You Pay.

  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    I haven't looked that closely at the data, but at first glance it seems that post-recession it was literally a case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer (rather than the rich getting wealthier at a much faster rate than the poor).

    The sad thing is you get angry people who lost much in the recession wanting a change, and they will possibly vote for Romney despite the fact that his policies may only exacerbate their situations.

    Romney seems to want to go with voodoo economics on steroids: 1) tax cuts to the rich, and 2) program cuts to the poor. This ostensibly leading to more wealth "trickling down" from above and greater lack of wealth below ready to soak it up like a sponge.

    Yeah, sure.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    A report released last Friday by the non-partisan Congressional Research Service really comes as no surprise.

    Tax Cuts for the Wealthy Linked to Income Inequality... but do not spur economic growth.


    There is no evidence to suggest that tax cuts for the wealthy stimulate savings, investment, or economic growth but do contribute to growing income inequality.