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What strategy would work to stop terrorism?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Better security, bombing runs with drones, targeted assassinations, covert surveillance, banning all Muslims from traveling to the US, media blackout of any attacks, changing the culture by empowering moderate Muslims, putting an embargo on Saudi oil, gun control, arming more people, having Congress declare war, taking them down on-line, or maybe a big non-nuclear blast to wipe out cities like Raqqa, stopping the propaganda with a pro jihad spin on TV and the Internet, ground troops to setup safe zones, working with Russia to get Assad to clamp down on religious fighters...

    Or do we need to really look at the causes of this on both sides with the horrible past decisions and the response attacks, the desire to have cheap oil, and the oppression of the people by the ruling class that lives the high life and controls the poor. Maybe it is the over-population problem, strain on resources, poverty, and seemingly lack of birth control and abortions in the 3rd world countries. And the rules and culture that living in a theocracy creates. The involvement of Western governments to control countries, commit crimes, and wage war. The Crusaders who want a modern day WW3 style holy war. The industry that wants to make lots of money selling weapons to both sides of this conflict. An inability to forgive and forget.

    And that is just for Islamic terrorists, who I would have expected 100 times more attacks if this was a real war.

    Now, there are plenty of US-made domestic terrorists that aren't quite as bad, but have done plenty of attacks of their own. They just have only carried out unorganized attacks for now, and the media likes to spin it that way. However, I'm just glad I'm not a FBI agent or Secret Service agent right now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Are we talking about realistic options that would solve it in the next decade or two?


    If so, I don't think there are any.
     
  3. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    The only solution is very long term and it involves embracing the enemy and accepting that they will likely cut us in the embrace.

    It's social. It's economic. It's political. (I don't think it's religious when it comes down to it)

    The answers to those questions don't come from the end of a gun or from the result of a dropped bomb. Guns and bombs, while certainly expeditious end up creating more of the same.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    The nutcases of the world will never go away. Better identification and monitoring are about the best way to minimize their activities.
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm less cynical than @Charlatan about this, but I think in the same vein: Defeating/minimizing terrorism can only happen through increased education, decreased poverty, and stable democracy.

    The Arab Spring was a multifaceted opportunity. Many balls were dropped, some were played relatively well. It's not actually over.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Terrorism is like the common cold...you'll never truly get rid of it.

    But like a cold...you can take common sense and intelligent actions to minimize it and prevent it.

    However, unlike a cold and more like a cancer...unfortunately sometimes you'll have to do certain extreme measures to remove a malignant one.

    ----------

    Yes, promoting the best of civilization and humanity will help reduce it significantly.
    But just singing Kumbaya won't stop the worst.

    It will be a combination of medicines & surgeries.

    A few just want to see the world burn...
    It makes no sense, no logic...but they do have to be stopped.

    -----------

    In this case, Daesh is a cancer and it needs to be operated on, no denial. (but by all the doctors, not just one)
    But there needs some serious medicine, rehab and support to go along with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  7. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    Terrorism as a global problem probably can't be completely eliminated-- not in anything akin to the short term. The best that we can do with force is to oppose the largest or most destructively active terrorist organizations, like Daesh or Boko Haram, with some real chance of defeating them as organizations-- though likely when the groups break, individuals will get away to kill another day.

    But the best we can do to really reduce radicalism and stunt the growth of terrorism is to improve living conditions, education, and economic opportunities in the countries where these movements tend to generate, and in those countries from whence members of such groups tend to spring. To try and ensure those areas see increased pluralism and tolerance in their societies-- which may not be synonymous with instituting American-style democracy there-- and to push for more separation between religion and state-- which, again, may not be synonymous with entirely separating religion and state. But ultimately, radicalism and extremism are weeds that grow in the fertile soil of poverty, hopelessness, xenophobia, tyranny, and especially ignorance.

    In fact, we can see a shadow of the same phenomenon at work here in America, where xenophobic and ignorant people are supporting the most extreme and radical presidential candidate they can find....

    Education, decent infrastructure, decent economic opportunities, and relative freedom from tyranny and intolerance will simply not promote the creation of terrorism. Most people don't start out wanting to be terrorists. They usually end up lured or seduced or deluded into becoming terrorists because the few lunatics who really do want to be terrorists exploit terrible living conditions and lack of better options for people to their own advantage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    • Like Like x 1
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    One of the things mentioned in this week's Nuclear Summit in DC, was the use of drones by terrorists
    especially in conjunction with Nuclear and radioactive material (much less assistance from the "dark web"...)

    Link

    Like in the article suggesting that drones could be used to spread "dirty bomb" material in a randomized way in a large scale area,
    the one I'm scared of is them using drones to do a World Trade Center scenario...but aiming them at Nuclear Plants. (you'd potentially get a Chernobyl or Fukushima situation and impact)

    It would be easy to get them nearby, trucking them in at multiple points...and they wouldn't have to gain much speed.
    There's no response time for interception.

    The likely ways to prevent it would be to take pro-active measures and install automated anti-aircraft Gatling guns like on carriers at multiple points to protect all sides from multiple fast moving smaller targets.

    But initiatives like these would be costly and take time to implement.

    And they just announce the murder of security guard at a nuclear medical facility...and all his ID, etc were stolen. - link
    So something may be moving already...

    I mean, not to be paranoid...but you do have to be a bit paranoid to be aware and take preventative action.
    No matter what you think, the bad guys are still out there...and they want the world to burn.
     
  10. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

    Dirty bombs aren't that great of a threat, but they accomplish true terrorism in that people are lead to believe that they are. You can read more here:
    NRC: Fact Sheet on Dirty Bombs


    The Chernobyl disaster was the result of an unsanctioned and abysmally managed experiment which attempted to cool an RBMK reactor (an awful design, above all) using the remaining kinetic energy of the turbine following shutdown. The accident resulted in the deaths of 41 people on the scene. The only incidence of radiation-associated disease to have increased in the aftermath of the event is that of thyroid cancer, which has resulted in 15 deaths out of several thousand cases. Far more people in the former USSR have been affected by the increase in prevalence of psychosomatic disorders resulting from pathological anxieties manifested at odds with generally low levels of exposure in many Belarusian, Ukrainian, and Russian communities.

    The tsunami resulting from the Tohoku earthquake damaged the poorly placed backup diesel generators cooling the Fukushima Daiichi plant after it had been shut down at the time the earthquake struck. Five of its personnel were killed as a result of the tsunami striking the plant; none died from radiation. About 18,000 people were killed by the earthquake and tsunami, and about 1,600 died as a result of the evacuation, many due to suicide. None of the evacuees received an effective dose above legal or medical limits, and not a single case of illness among them has resulted from exposure to radiation.

    In both these cases, irrational fear of radiation has caused much more harm than the radiation itself. Modern proliferation and terrorism threats can be rationally assessed through the examination of robust evidence, not by the influence of uninformed paranoia.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    Fifteen years in and the war on terror remains the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. How the hell do you declare war on a concept? Does anyone really think you're going to drop enough bombs and terrorism will just go away? That if you blow up enough of Daesh to render them ineffective something even worse won't take their place? How long are we going to play this game? How many countries to we have to utterly fuck up before it's enough to declare the whole thing a failure?

    Terrorism doesn't occur because of overpopulation. It doesn't occur because of Islam. It doesn't occur because They (who?) hate our freedom. Terrorism happens because of instability. It happens when people lose their homes, their jobs, their families, their communities. It happens because people find themselves with nowhere to go and nothing to live for. People in that position are immensely vulnerable. They're easy prey for those who would use them. Give them a sense of purpose and someone to hate and they will commit the most heinous atrocities for you. In their minds, they're just repaying it in kind.

    You don't fight that with bombs and guns, and you don't fight it with peace and love. You fight it with stability. You give people reasons to live, even shitty ones, and then they become unwilling to blow themselves up for whatever bullshit some charismatic wannabe despot feeds them. The people of Iraq may not have been happy under Saddam, but they weren't strapping on suicide vests because they were able to carry out meaningful lives. Now they can't. Now we have Daesh.

    To date, the western world has proven itself remarkably bad at introducing stability into the regions we've decided to interfere with. We're real good at tearing it down but we suck balls at building it back up. Probably not dropping bombs on them would be a good start.

    There's a lot of talk about how horrific Daesh is, and how they have to be fought. That's all fine, but what happens after Daesh? Does anyone honestly believe that we're going to go in there and kill a bunch more people and suddenly things are going to get better? Has anyone even bothered to ask what happens after we fight Daesh? Or who will replace them? I certainly haven't heard or read a single word about that, but maybe it's happening somewhere I haven't seen it.

    I'm not convinced "we" can do anything to stop terrorism. We're a decade and a half into this whole misadventure and we haven't learned a goddamned thing.