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Politics What went wrong with the Democrats in 2016?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Yep. My nephew moved from Illinois this year past to take a job as an engineer in Boise. His life-long Illinoisan parents are considering moving to Idaho, too.
    It makes total sense to me to go where the jobs are, where the economy is robust, but I say that as an immigrant from Canada to the US. My father took a better job with the American counterpart of his company, 50 years ago. But statistics say relatively few people actually pick up and move much further than the region from which they are born. I understand that too, having sacrificed the stability of extended family and long-time friends ties. Still, I understand that waiting around for someone to make things better is a quick route to nowhere. In that respect, I truly am an immigrant.
  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Anthony Bourdain slams ‘privileged’ liberals for ‘utter contempt’ of working class

    Interesting take from someone who is "Eastern liberal" (his description, not mine), has been clearly anti-Trump, and who has said that Trump's election will probably be bad for his job/career in general.

    IMO, the final part is true of both sides, and is only getting worse:

  3. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    It's hard to find common ground when you think of the opposition as not just of different opinions, but as a "basket of deplorables."
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    If I recall correctly, that was taken out of context...but that's the way it was spun and pushed. (correct me if I'm wrong...)
  5. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Here is the video, so you can judge context:

    IMO it seems to back up Bourdain's "makes things worse for all of us" line of thinking.
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Liberals in Canada aren't much better. I suspect it's because they've taken "the Third Way" too right of centre to the point of failure. It's probably why I was never a liberal.
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Fair enough...but this was more along the lines I was thinking of...a page from Politifact
    In Context: Hillary Clinton and the 'basket of deplorables'

    Now, this takes it before, during and after...and yes, it was exaggerated rhetoric, but the focus was on that one line (and repeated ad nauseam) ...and she defines it distinctly (not good characteristics, no??)
    All the while forgetting how she described the other "half" which is exactly those who are in areas she lost...and it obvious she's concerned about them.

    This was the difficulty of the death of a 1000 cuts, continuous negativity and false equivalence...
    which may have made many good people not trust her or think she was "above them"

    Truly, it wasn't Hillary's care or trust which was "a failure" she couldn't control that negative spin. (and the media loves a controversy and a short clip)

    Where the Dems failed is 3-fold:

    1. They forgot (and she forgot too) to give people something to vote FOR (jobs, hope, change, etc...) ...not just say..."look at my website" ...not just, don't vote for him
    2. She didn't get out there enough...they didn't get out the vote enough. (50+% didn't vote??)
    3. They presumed the previously blue states...especially what they called "the blue firewall" (and they also presumed, the female vote, the black vote and the hispanic vote)

    And yes, there may have been some coastal elitist line of thinking, but I think that was the Dems leadership overall.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    All the spin aside, and as I said earlier in this thread, I 100% believe that if the DNC and mainstream media hadn't tried to force HRC down our throats during the primaries, we'd be feeling the Bern.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  10. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Kind of proves my point. The media and DNC should've spent much more time and energy pushing Bernie if they wanted to win. Instead they talked about Trump as much as they could, thinking there was no way he could actually win, and that HRC would survive by default. Little did they realize how much they were playing into what Bourdain said in the article I linked, and how out of touch they were. They forgot the 'any publicity is good publicity' rule, deciding to try to bury Trump while not letting HRC do a press conference or speak to anyone not tightly controlled, or who didn't share the questions ahead of time. We all know how that strategy ended.

    Looking at all of the losses they've taken in governships, in the House, in the Senate, and in state legislatures over the last 3-4 cycles (look up the actual losses, they are crazy), you'd think they'd start digging their heads out of the sand and stop blaming everyone but themselves and the candidates they run. At some point they have to drop the echo chamber or lose everything they gained 8 years ago.

    As someone who did not vote anything near a straight ticket, who didn't support Trump, and who at this point detests both parties, it's pretty sad to see the ridiculous excuses being pushed to avoid having to face reality. The system is broken. Buying into either side seems foolish to me. Ymmv.
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Under what crime should she have been indicted? I am still not clear what she has done that should involve jail time.

    Perhaps I am just a foreigner, but from outside the US bubble she looks no worse than any other career politician.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Frankfurt, Germany
    I'm agreeing with Borla's points in this thread wholeheartedly.

    During the Christmas family gathering I was able to spend some quality time with my sister and catch up on life events with her. She mentioned her disappointment with US politics and described the DNC behavior during the entire election with some choice words.

    As a young, educated, non-white female professional with strong liberal tendencies she is practically the poster child for the progressive movement, yet she is completely disillusioned by the election and has a strong dislike for both Hillary Clinton as well as her "ham-fisted and super condescending" supporters.

    As it happens, she was a Bernie supporter and was hoping for him to become the Democratic candidate. When that failed, she initially settled with voting for Hillary. However, when DWS became news and Hillary went on to hire her straight after, my sister and many of her like-minded friends decided to boycott the entire election in disgust.

    Personally, I find it hilarious how much delusion goes around the DNC ranks and seemingly nobody is willing to speak the plain truth: We dun' fucked up. Admitting to mistakes and accepting responsibility is a crucial step in the improvement process. At the speed the DNC is going with wrapping their heads around this, it's gonna take a long time until the progressives manage to progress.
    • Like Like x 3
  13. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    Why she officially hired DWS so soon after being fired from the DNC was the stupidest decision she made. I have no idea why she would do that. It wasn't like she wouldn't do the same work, and have the same access. Tell DWS that you will hire her for the transition team or something.
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Democrats, With Garland on Mind, Mobilize for Supreme Court Fight

    And IMHO, they're going to lose.
    The GOP, votes in lock-step...the spin with repetition...they resist with arms linked. On point and principle. Period.
    The Dems...eh, they're wishy-washy.

    I've seen it already as confirmations go through...

    They'll cave.
    It will be GOP 100%...and a few trickling Dems...and it will go through...again & again.

    The Dems don't play hardball as well as the GOP.
    And they won't resist, digging their heals in, the the GOP did.

    Stagnation is not their game.
    Obstruction only works when you're solid.
  15. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    Yes. I'm not sure what the Democrats problem is and why they didn't call out the hypocrisy.
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Dems...time to show your spine.
    You want respect and votes...y'gotta earn it and fight for it.
    Be hungry.
    Give'em a reason to want you.
    Not just, "we're not them".
    Figure it out.
    In the meantime...build your own damned wall.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Columbus, OH
    The Dems problem is that live in a fantasy world where they think their opposition will at some point in the future show some amount of reason. They think that if they present everything in a way that has sense and logic, that the Republicans will see it and respond in kind. They are unwilling and/or unable to play dirty hardball
    • Like Like x 2
  18. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Oh, they can get dirty but when someone points it out, they act like Canadians and start apologizing.
    I see this all the time in threads where liberals express the slightest bit bit of disgust with alt-right, kkk-light, bullshit and people run to shame them.
    "So much hate. You liberals are just destroying this country with your anger and hatred."
    Then the liberals spend ten pages trying to explain how they aren't hating and angry, apologizing for being belligerent but they are the good guys but by that time it's too late.
    • Like Like x 4