Why attack Sikhs?

I'm with redux - it seems like there were some tattoos and suspicision that the gunman belonged to a fringe group (too early to say "hate group" but anyone outside of the Republicans, Democrats and the Welcome Wagon can be branded a "fringe group" as a convenience). So where Aurora pretty quickly obviously became viewed as the work of a deranged madman who acted alone but told people beforehand that it was a good idea, Milwaukee seems to be the work of a deranged madman who acted alone who told people beforehand that it was a good idea and got some agreement.

At this point, I'm comfortable with the "domestic terrorism" label provided by the folks who have more facts than the rest of us. A week from now, I won't. The authorities are being very stingy with information at the moment, almost like they're worried that there are other bad guys out there getting ready to do the same thing.

/guy related to people who confuse Muslims and Sikhs because they "both wear turbans".

 

Answers are starting to trickle out:

Sikh temple shooting suspect identified as former U.S. Army soldier Wade Michael Page | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

I suppose the textbook definition of "domestic terrorism" doesn't fit here, but I also think that it's hard to argue that it's not close considering the "skinhead" description being thrown around. If nothing else, it's a hate crime.

 

BBC News - Wisconsin Sikh temple gunman named as Wade Michael Page

 

As I've often said, things like this are NOT hate crimes. They are simply mass murders by a socio-path (if one can say this was simply anything). The hate crime is promoting the hatred of any identifiable group, and should be punished harshly. But these murders should receive no greater punishment than the shooting of a convenience store clerk in a botched robbery. Otherwise, you end up devaluing the clerk's life because the robber didn't "hate" him. The purpose of the justice system is to judge the action, not the intent.

 

In my mind, simple one that it is, hating Sikhs/Jews/Blacks/Women/Handicapped/Name-Your-Group is stupid. Hating a Sikh/Jew/Black/Woman/Handicapped/Name-Your-Individual may be justified. Where it becomes a CRIME is promoting both the hatred of an identifiable group and the taking of illegal actions against them, for example murdering them. THAT is a hate crime. The actual murder is a murder, and no more a hate crime than if an ex-spouse hates and kills his/her former partner.

 

Well, apparently he was in this band, End Apathy. Which looks enough like innocent fun if maybe a little douchebag-y until you notice that there are Nazi flags hanging in the background of several of the photos.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to at least suspect a hate crime.
And there is a difference, in my opinion.

 

The designation of domestic terrorism or even hate crime changes the nature of the crime from a state crime to a federal crime. It impacts the investigatory capabilities, prosecution, sentencing, etc.

It was probably what prompted the initial police response as a possible domestic terrorist incident. That allowed the FBI to immediately take the lead on the investigation, which given the facts we know seems appropriate since the target was a religious temple and not a more random public location.

 

Yet the Knoxville, TN police didn't make the same designation when their local crazy guy shot up a Unitarian church because "that's where all the liberals are". By all recent accouts, Page acted alone. Charges seem very remote at this point.

 

Took a quick look at the link to End Apathy. It certainly seems that they are a hate group, and are committing hate crimes with the promotion of violence against of specific groups. This sort of thing needs to be outlawed. Freedom of assembly and freedom of belief need to be protected, but there must be limits. Believe what you want, but don't spread your hatred to others, and don't send them to commit crimes in the name of your stupidity. That's where the hate crime ends. In my opinion, the rest is just an atrocity committed in the name of a misguided ideal, and no worse than killing someone in any other premeditated murder.

 

a neo-nazi asshole with a gun.

it's nice that we have all the massacres to pay for so the gun-fetishists are not unduly inconvenienced in their procurement of a fucking weapon.

 

i'm pleased that you are inconvenienced. the idea that you should not be when purchasing a gun seems to me lunacy. of course, it's a lunacy with a source:

John Nichols: The Weakening of Gun Laws | The Nation

maybe it's also time for something to be done about the ultra-right/neo-fascist militia set.
o wait---they're mainstream now, aren't they?

 

Yeah, I really wish these confused slack jaws with demented warrior-for-the-cause fantasies would just stick with popping pipe stubs and homemade truck kablooeys that can destroy an entire office building instead of these pathetic sub-dozen body counts with pea shooters. These assholes are making it exceedingly more difficult for me to enjoy my sport shooting hobby... buying scary-looking rifles and pistols and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo. I'd rather to have to BGC-'n-wait to buy fertilizer or rent a truck... I've got qualifiers to prepare for and that's serious business, folks.

It's like golf but with less cursing.

roachboy,

Didn't you say something about burning down the establishment or something recently?

Careful with those words, man... white guy + beard + angry politics = domestic terrorist.

 

besides, what's another massacre? people die all the time, right? massacres just push things along. what really matters is the gun hobbyist. because that's the legitimate center of this sort of debate, isn't it?

 

I recall a 2009 DHS report on the growing threat of right wing extremist groups, particularly white supremacist groups, (as a result of 9/11, a black president, recession/unemployment...) and the backlash from Republicans in Congress and the FOX/Limbaugh crowd.

A similar report on left wing extremist groups (eco-terrorists, etc) drew no such condemnation.