Politics Why don't the Tea Partiers get arrested?

Naturally.

For a movement being accused of not having a message - I think this guy articulated the main points of one quite well.

Thanks for posting this up, roachboy. Hadn't seen it.

 

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-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- Part of a mature debate is refraining from using inflamatory language to describe the opposition. Another part is actually discussing issues, not posting pictures designed to ridicule the opposition. There has been too much of that in this thread, and those who continue to engage in it from this post onward will get to explain themselves.

 

It's a fair cop. Guilty. A beer too far and some pictures that made me laugh and that I couldn't resist posting. Sorry! It was meant in good humour, but it's how it's received that counts.

 

You weren't the only guilty one, so don't think this was directed solely at you. That said, Tilted Politics is definitely NOT the place to have a beer and try to make derogatory jokes, just like you wouldn't do the same in a pub full of folks with mixed views. If you're going to be funny, you need to be universally funny - and that's an impossibly high bar.

Just know that the staff is watching this thread - and others - and we expect folks to uphold the mutually agreed upon standards.

 

I suggest you actually attend some Tea Party events. Personally I don't hate anyone. My general philosophy is - you don't F' with me and mine, I don't F' with you and yours. Obama seems to believe at his core that what I work for belongs to the government. Our opposing views can not be reconciled. There can be no compromise. He either needs to change his views or we will vote him out of office. I am fine with paying my fair share for necessary government services but the social engineering and re-distribution of wealth through government has to end. Everyone benefits from real wealth creation, the government has to get out of the way for that to happen.

To suggest and believe the Tea Party movement is manufactured is a position held in defiance of reality, but it does give pseudo-intellectuals a basis for some fantastic conspiracy theories.

 

so what you're saying, ace, is that the tea party is a bunch of narcissistic reactionaries like yourself. and the other thing you're saying is that you have a make-believe obama that you really don't like. and a third thing you're saying is that the combination of narcissitic reactionaries plus make-believe obama in the context of a tea party event = illusion of power. great. you just go right ahead and be all militant about that and shit, ace. i hope you get on camera all dressed up like george washington. maybe you'll get some air time during which you can talk about your crackpot economic metaphysics. worst thing for the tea party is to let the tea party talk. i'm all for the tea party talking and talking.

 

Actually, a pub full of people with mixed views would probably be the only place I would make those comments (well, not comments as much as amusing images). However, point taken.

Instead, I'll just say that I veer between finding the Tea Party ridiculous and evil. Still, I'll back off now if this is going to get all serious.

 

Yes.

No. I think Obama is real. I think his points of view are real. His points of view conflicts with mine.

I think there was an illusion of powerlessness, an illusion that lead to the rise of the Tea Party.

I am not the dress up type, but it is rare to go to an event (even a Republican event, not Tea Party specific) and not run into a dude who dresses up like a guy from 1776. These folks usually have a pretty good sense of humor, tend to enjoy life, not bitter, don't hate, are not racist. I have been party to some civil rights protests back in the 70's and there is a big difference. Guy's dressed up like George Washington bring an element of fun to the protest - I remember the protests in the 70's as people simply being really, really mad at the world and everything else. That is not characteristic of Tea Party people.

Depends on what network you watch. The media can pick the most inarticulate person for their 30 second spot, or they can pick someone who can convey thoughts and ideas succinctly. I am going to be practicing.
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You know we have been through this, you know what my point of view is, you have seen how I back it up - we disagree. Nothing I say on this point will ever make a difference with you will it? So, what is the point of requesting a citation?

 

i get the idea of the dressing up thing. i like billionaires for bush. and i can wager that i've spent alot more time with tea party people in real life than you've spent with people who identify with the left. i've found most of the tea party folk freaked out and lost and with little to know idea how the world beyond their immediate activities actually works or even what's going on out there. so they make stuff up to explain it. like you do. when they don't run away from the problems altogether. like you do. no-one in their right mind blames obama for unemployment, for example: that's mostly a consequence of the long-term transformation in capitalist organization, exacerbated by the financial crisis brought to us all by the kind of crackpot economic metaphysics that you routinely espouse. but the tea party does, because they're largely chumps for the republican party and running away from the actually existing record of conservative policy is the only hope the republicans have. even as they may have bought out the tea party, but they can't quite control them---so maybe they'll bring down the republicans anyway. that'd be funny.

 

No excuse for me - I wasn't drunk. I'll check my over the top insults at the door from now on.

Ace, with all due respect - I believe you and the Tea Party may not be thinking realistically if you regard that which is being proposed as social engineering and wealth re-distribution. From my perspective, the measures being discussed in regard to increasing the tax rates on the wealthiest are to modestly attempt to reverse the engineering and re-distribution of wealth which has been cleverly and greedily diverted to the top.

If everyone benefits from wealth creation where pray tell are the benefits? I've seen nothing but the wealth creation.
Corporations enjoyed 8 Bush years where there was little to no government regulation or hampering interference. The implosion was pretty much all their own doing. The Obama administration bailed them out, giving them little more than a slap on the wrist and has pretty much left them alone as well. The whole "well, businesses are feeling a bit skittish and uncertain with this Democratic President" is bullshit as this President has given them zero reason to feel this way. He's done everything they've asked and more.
So anyway, how much longer before we see some of the bennies?

Regarding taxes and paying one's fair share:
I'd probably consider myself lower middle class now - I'm doing okay. I know how to stretch a nickel and don't live beyond my means. And yet, I think the measly amount of taxes I pay is a crime. I've never paid this little in my entire life. I live in one of the great democracies - it's still a great country - I am fortunate - I want to contribute my far share to it's success - I am more than happy to pay extra - above and beyond "necessary government services" to insure that those who fall on hard times through no fault of their own, the mentally and physically ill, children and the elderly ALL have the sort of safety net the "Greatest" country in the world should be providing it's citizens. I don't want to rely on corporate and private entities interested in making a profit to do this. I want my not for profit government to do it. If we're put on this earth for a reason I do not think it is to accumulate wealth for purposes that do not include helping out our fellow humans.

Don't be selfish, don't be greedy, don't be hatin'

And also, the "we" in "we will vote him out of office" is suffering from a lack of numbers. The Tea Party is looking more and more like a swarm of flies around a dying elephant. Talk of raising taxes on the very wealthy is now part of the discussion because the majority are clamoring for it.

 

I have presented compelling empirical evidence over and over and over and over. From the dawn of civilization real wealth has been created through innovation and has consistent through human history improved living standards. Demand is not at the root of real wealth creation.

I accept the fact that we see this issue differently, why don't you?

 

To correct my own misspeak, the talk is not of raising taxes, the talk is of pulling back tax cuts that were given to the wealthy for the stated reason that it would spur growth and provide jobs. As it has obviously not done that, I'm resolved to the fact that it was done for the purpose of allowing them to obtain more wealth.

 

Are we discussing how to create real wealth on this thread or any thread currently in active discussion? If we are, I haven't seen it that way. Unless you're talking about wealth that trickles down to the masses and I haven't seen you expound on how that's being done.

 

I agree that innovation is good and can bring wealth. Unfortunately, the innovators themselves don't always get their share of that wealth. Or is the argument that everyone who is wealthy is an innovator?

Also, Baraka asks a great question: what is the difference between "real wealth" and "wealth"?

 

I've read some of the pretext and agree, it's sounds a bit like voodoo economics to me. Then again, theoretical economics is a bit like voodoo. Stick a pin in the liver and hope it gets the heart beating again.

 

When I give the shout-out to TFP, note I will be a big black guy, about 50, with a beard - most likely the only black guy in the crowd (so odds are some in the media may be curious) - I say this because according to polls about 95% of blacks who voted did so for Obama. I grew up around nothing but liberals. Every working adult male in my neighborhood was a union member. I have people in the public school Teaching profession in my family (need I say more about them being liberal). I have a family member involved in the Peace Corp and blames the US for the condition in every third world nation on the planet. I lived in California for about 15 years, near LA. I spent 4 years at a university. I have a cousin who was an actual Black Panther. I belong to the NAACP and have been a member since HS. I know people who marched with MLK. I am a conservative surrounded by liberals and have been all my life. I have to go out of my way to find conservatives to hangout with.

I and others make up the fact that we actually think we are taxed too much???

We put a stop to Obama's agenda by getting people elected in Congress and you call that running away??? The WH may be a 50/50 proposition, but the Senate is not. Let's see what happens in 2012.
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My point was that everyone benefits from innovation. People who innovate and have the ability to create real wealth need to be freed and allowed to do that. When innovators are restricted for various reasons, the human condition stagnates or goes into what could be called "dark ages". When nature restricts innovation that is one thing, when government/religion/culture norms/etc. is responsible that should never happen.

Real wealth is when something beneficial is created. Wealth is transferred. Or, real wealth results in a bigger pie. Wealth is simply more about how the pie is divided. The best examples are in farming. The plow for example - allowed farmers to material improve productivity and yields - higher production, lower food production costs and less time required to produce food. With lower prices and more time and more food, human resources where then available for more and more innovation and the on-going living standard improvements.