Politics Why don't the Tea Partiers get arrested?

Not sure if you mentioned it Eddie, but I'd love to hear your justification for wearing a sidearm at a political rally.

 

I'll save you the time waiting for him to respond: Constitution, Freedom, etc.

 

To remind Americans that we are not powerless, that we know our rights and will defend them, that we will not be the victims of a corrupt government.

I encourage every American to own a gun. Not only because it's your right but because you have much to defend; life and liberty. There are people in our government who want to take away our rights and control us. We already know that, the 99% knows that.

 

Guns are retarded.

Unless you need to protect your 3rd Amendment rights, of course.

 

Mountain lions stalking calves and children, coyotes attacking the dogs and chickens, and bears scavenging for food right after hibernation. In my business, guns are required tool.

 

don't forget Commie Pinkos lurking in the shadows ready to pounce on Real 'Murcans

 

I was a "Tea Partier" for awhile. I liked the original message and the majority I knew were much like I was a disgruntled Democrat who saw the party we loved being taken too far left. (We were on the whole Clinton-Dems, who the party considered, "too moderate" so our voices didn't matter.) I can't say I didn't enjoy my times when I was there, as Ace said the times I did go it was more of a social event and party affiliation didn't matter the common goal bonded us. Then, I awoke one day to find that Smart Girl Politics (very neocon organization) was sending me e-mails because they got my name from the Tea Party registry, I saw Pat Robertson praising the Tea Party and Glenn Beck was acting like the TP were his troops to overthrow Obama. None of which is why I was there. I saw where it was going after MANY here and in real life told me to be careful. I still have a few friends there so I can't label them all, but I also have had a few friends email me weekly telling me I should have died rather than take Obama care and now be subjected to government as I fight to get disability and am on medicaid.When people are telling you flat out that you should be dead, you take it personally and you see the hatred.

I have a relative who would claim to be an OWS supporter, however she is more of a TPer. Last we talked she bitched about how I should be dead because I am just living off society and I am what is wrong with the nation. YET, she wants government to cut her student loan down or "forgive" it because she doesn't make enough to pay for it. And her not making enough to pay for it is my fault, how? She's the one who takes trips to Hawaii and Mexico instead of wanting to pay her loans. BUT we as a society have been told it is better to blame your neighbors/friends/relatives/government than it is to blame the system that makes the problems that creates the reasons for the hatred.

The funny thing about the system that saved my life is I can't get a Primary Care Physician that will even talk to me due to pre-existing conditions (the stroke and so on). So, I'm almost in the position I was in before, no preventative exams or a doctor to handle small stuff before it becomes life threatening. Thankfully, the neurosurgeon is the only one in the area and even though he isn't covered by the "managed"care program they have given me a waiver to continue care with him.

I have also found that when debated and asked real questions like "what should I have done last year besides die?" Some will back down and say, "well, you needed it and you are a good person and...." all kinds of excuses, yet they have no hard core answers. That's them just trying to be nice and I appreciate it, but I'd rather they be honest. Then they email me or drop something on my FB wall that shows the hatred and total irrationality the right has convinced these TP is ok.

Worse thing for the TP was Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck being held up as heroes for it.

I fear, the OWS will fall into a similar situation with the far left.

This is a little something that should show what happens as we stay divided as a nation:\

Fact: The Jeep was credited as a major reason we won WW2.
Fact: The Jeep (while not owned as a separate entity holds the patent) All 3 Axis Power nations have been affiliated or owned the manufacturing rights to Jeep

Japan = Mitsubishi
Germany = Daimler-Chrysler
Italy = Fiat

That shows how far we have fallen in the last 3 decades. You cannot blame any 1 party, president, congress, union, business, bank or group of people .
In doing so we continue to be divided and in doing so refuse to see the good that the other party or group of people may have to offer. If this nation stopped feasting on it's own and started to just try to work together for the common good then we'd all be better off. But when you have talking heads like Limbaugh, Beck, Faux News, Stewart, Maher, Moore and numerous media outlets and so called "leaders" on both sides USING THE PEOPLE to fight this "cultural war" and keep us divided as a nation, where neighbor hates neighbor because Beck/Stewart say their politics would rather see you dead, and in some cases perhaps, but as a person I hope not. When family members are brought to blows because of politics..... then the puppetmasters working BOTH sides are winning. The top 1% doesn't care which political party wins. THEY DON'T GIVE A DAMN BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT STACKED EITHER WAY, AS LONG AS WE STAY DIVIDED AND HATING EACH OTHER THEY WIN.

That is why the TP became so important to them, they take a unit that had a unique voice and bought it out using the media. That's why they can get away with their hate speeches and protests. Because they are the favored. It was, IMHO, a total set up give the people a HOPE that their voices account for something and maybe show that they have enough to influence election (2010) and the right talking head support and then pull them into control by the far right.

However, the OWS came along and saw many disenfranchised TPer's, (like myself discouraged because the TP was set up to fail and discourage people to have a voice and believe change is possible). Now the OWS , SO FAR, is what the TP started out as Bipartisan, "let's drop the bullshit and work together." But now the OWS is starting to veer to the far left. I am observing the same sad trends that the TP had right before it changed. Those slight internal fights where the extremists want to take it where it was NOT meant to go originally. There are forces in the OWS that are wanting to take it to the far left. If that happens, then the puppet masters truly win because people like myself will say, "I tried to speak out twice, both times politics and loathing took over and both times ended with extremism, guess it is true, you can't fight the man." And that is sad.

The outcome will be you will still have a group of disgruntled people in the center wanting their country back and you'll have extremists on both sides wanting onlyu what they want and hating everyone not like them.

I hope I am wrong about OWS but once people started crying about losing propane tanks and generators and being arrested and "why don't THEY get arrested or harassed," the OWS crowd started losing my support, because they wanted to be above the laws. I have stated before protesting peacefully is fine, whining about a luxury and a privilege being taken away while the rights are still being given, isn't going to win anyone over. Shutting down businesses and ports where the very people you are supposedly fighting for are taking the hardest blows doesn't make sense, you are creating a backlash against what you stand for and you are disenfranchising even more people. And again the puppet masters that 1% you are fighting is winning.

The ONLY true way to get this nation back on track and there are too many people not wanting to do this, is to work together. Put differences aside and work together in solving the problems.

Sit Limbaugh down with Stewart and Beck down with Moore and MAKE them listen to each other and they may find out they have some common goals and each side brings a different perspective in how to accomplish the goal BUT somewhere in the middle of both there lies the answer that works for ALL people. Now, it just seems that one side wants all the credit and would rather destroy this great nation rather than work with the other side for the common good.

 

haha more like lurking across the pacific. i encourage everyone i can to own a gun so it makes this country the hardest one in the world to invade. can you imagine how short of a movie Red Dawn would've been if the teachers, kids, gas station owners, and grocers all had guns?

 

That's a movie though, we won't be invaded so much as destroyed from within because we feasted on each other. No boogey man USSR anymore so now we create them within, the "far left" the "far right" the Tpers, the 1%, the OWS, the radical extremists.... etc.

It gives a rational reason for gun control. The irrationality and self destructiveness we are on. Giving EVERYONE access to a weapon is kinda of ludicrous. But then again, considering the price and that it is in most cases a luxury not a need in most household budgets..... only the very wealthy will soon be able to buy them.

 

I keep hearing talk of the "far left" and "the government" (who were voted into power, after all) and the other "enemy", depending on who is posting. Who are these people that are feared? What evidence is there that America has a "far left" in any significant number? Where is all this paranoia coming from?

I get the impression that a lot of Americans have not just lost faith in their governing bodies, but in the democratic process itself. What is the preferred way forward? Preparing for civil war seems a bit OTT to me. Is it too late to get the money out of politics, for example? How can the media be brought into line? Things seem so polarised that even discussion appears to be dysfunctional. Is it just because of the financial crisis?

 

I think the knowledge that the Koch Bros were behind the creation of the TP and that it was never the grassroots movement it claimed to be, soured many. I know it soured me and I was never even considering joining in the first place. I remember how enamored the media was of it, right from the get-go. Every night the American public were invited into the homes where tea-partiers were gathering. I took note of the fact that most of the homes were lavish and the gathering quite smartly dressed. This turned me off.

Not to say that people who joined early on were all well off or had anymore idea of its origin than the rest of us. Those who have stayed or joined since the Koch Bros were revealed to be the creators and bankrollers, have done so because they approve of the agenda.

I wouldn't say American citizens have lost faith in the democratic process though many can see that it's becoming more of an ideal than a process in action.

I don't think it's too late to get money out of politics as long as a majority of American citizens keep tearing off the scab and poking at the wound.

 

As a moderate, I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal. The far left to me includes Micheal Moore, Jon Stewart, Al Sharpton and basically Bill Maher to ME personally. The Far Left is in NO WAY as organized as the Far Right. Compare the ratings and power that Radio America had in it's short life, Al Franken, Jerry Springer(?). Whether or not Clear Channel truly gave them a chance, if there were listeners, an audience for them, they would have had a case to stay on the air, but they didn't. They were truly disorganized and didn't have much of a message let alone charisma. Now, Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity, say what you will about their politics, they SHOW a passion in their beliefs (regardless if you feel the same way). I admit, when I am in my car, I'll listen to them solely because OI like the passion they exude. I disagree with what they say 99% of the time, but they have a way to bring out emotions (usually rage and anger), the other side didn't or couldn't evoke from me.

Basically, the left that control the party now, that deems the government should have gun control and so on. There are a few that have stated they are in fact Socialists. I am not a Socialist, I believe in a governing regulatory body supported by the industries it regulates (with CONGRESSIONAL non partisan administers), instead of being totally tax reliant, totally tax reliant would be to have government dictate and pass whatever laws they wanted, that may sound ok, but if the wrong person was elected or put into power, there could be true unadulterated corruption. I do not believe in a total laissez faire as that would lead to the other end of the spectrum where as we see today greed dominates. The far right supports one, the far left supports the other, neither wants to compromise, where compromise would be and could very easily be reached. I don't believe that the constitution says anything about Capitalism and greed and laissez faire, and the far right demands that it does. On the contrary, I don't believe that the Constitution says anything about total regulatory bodies. However, I believe that the answer lies in the preamble, you cannot have domestic tranquility IF the companies run sweatshops and LOWER the standard of living, which the Far Right and the Far Left seem to be ok with. WTF are you wanting to LOWER the standards of living? You are closer to death thus you feel your progeny should not have the freedoms and opportunities that you yourself had? (BOTH sides are VERY guilty of this.)

It's not paranoia, it's the fact that because of the Far Leftists desire and need to be liked, they basically have (and I know there will be a few here jumping on me about this, BUT again, I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND NO ONE ELSE) made the white male almost the criminal in the world. I DO NOT CARE WHAT MY ANCESTORS DID, IF THEY OWNED SLAVES, KILLED INDIANS FOR LAND, ETC.... I DID NOT LIVE IN THOSE TIMES I WILL NOT FUCKING APOLOGIZE FOR MY ANCESTORS GET THE FUCK OVER IT. WE CANNOT MOVE FORWARD UNITED AS A NATION IF WE ARE GOING TO BLAME OUR ANCESTORS FOR THEIR CRIMES. I DO NOT NOR HAVE I EVER OWNED A SLAVE OR CALLED ANYONE THE "N" WORD. I TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY THEY TREAT ME, I RESPECT ALL, UNTIL PROVEN THAT I WILL NOT BE RESPECTED. Sorry, the problem with my saying that is there is a group on the left that assumes right away I must be racist and ignorant for saying that. F them. I have the right to believe what I want, it's my actions that you should judge me for. At least I am not some fake assed white boy, apologizing for things I never did nor plan to ever do. My ancestors made this country to be the best it could be, they did what they felt was right at that time in history to create a better world for their progeny, of which I am and have been able to enjoy what they made, regardless of how they made it. That in no way excuses the use of child labor, sweatshops and slave labor used by corporations overseas today, you can not no never how much you rewrite history change it, ask any addict, this is what the LEFT wants to do. We are a better than that society, I would hope, our efforts should be to change the PRESENT to make a better FUTURE. But I don't see that from the Left, I see jokes about stupid white men. And guess what, I am white and proud of it, I have nothing to be ashamed of . The only racism in this is the racism are those who see what I just said as being racist. THESE PEOPLE CHOOSE TO WANT TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE PAST WHILE THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHAT THEIR ANCESTORS CREATED FOR THEM. IT'S FAKE AND BULLSHIT TO APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR ANCESTORS WHO OWNED SLAVES AND KILLED INDIANS, WHILE YOU LIVE COMFORTABLY IN A RELATIVELY FREE SOCIETY THAT YES, IS ECONOMICALLY TAINTED BUT DO YOU HAVE DIRT FLOORS? DO YOU HAVE INDOOR PLUMBING? DO YOU LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES ENJOYING THE FREEDOMS AND PROTECTIONS WE DO HAVE?

The Far Right thinks 16 hour work days for pennies is ok for the workers today, that there is no working sacrifice and that the workers should kiss ass because they have a job.... F them. They are no better, in fact they are far worse than those ancestors that believed in Manifest Destiny. As Ann Coulter points out their blacks are blacker and better and know their place. THEY ARE THE ONES WANTING CLASS WARFARE BY THEIR ACTIONS. They are controlled by a religion and use that religion to dictate beliefs and control and they allow themselves to be controlled and have their policies dictated to them by leaders of that religious community (pro-life, pro capital punishment, are great examples). Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and so on, claimed at one point to be a "moral Majority", yet they would censor art and create a religious theocracy in this country, I do not see that as moral nor do I believe a majority would want that..

So that is why I cannot buy into either party far left or far right because they BOTH have taken control of their respective parties.

The extremists took control of BOTH parties because they were starting to become the same. That's why BOTH parties hate moderates and centrists. To the Right, King George II was too wishy washy like his dad, he was not conservative enough. To the Left, he was Satan and Hitler and hated because he was too far right. Casanova Clinton was hated for the same reasons, the left saw him as weak because he needed to make sacrifices and compromises with a Right winged Congress that hated him because they saw him as weak yet too Left...... The truth is BOTH George and Bill were more center with a slight leaning than extremists. Obama, I have a hard time telling if he is far left or a wannabe moderate. That's MY opinion.

the preferred way to move forward IMHO, is to make sacrifices on both sides, make compromises for the good of ALL people, again regulate industries, tax those that prefer to close down factories here and open them overseas because of cheaper labor, solely because they destroy the tax base.

There will be no Civil War, we will just devour ourselves and continue to have Barrack Room Emperors (errr weak presidents, that is) like Rome did in its declining years, we'll continue to be told to hate each other until the states and people start seceding and demanding a weaker centralized government. Which, as the presidency gets weaker and weaker and corporations and greed become more and more powerful and acceptable, will happen. The states won't fight each other, I see maybe a few skirmishes, but both parties as much as they may say they don't they want a centralized government to keep this union together. It is for that reason both sides need to get control of their extremists and do what is best for the country not just for them. WE ALL F'N HAVE TO LIVE TOGETHER AND SHARE. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF COMMUNITY. WE DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE EACH OTHER BUT WE BEST FIND WAYS TO GET ALONG BEFORE WE DESTROY THE GREAT THING WE DO HAVE.
--- merged: Nov 12, 2011 10:17 PM ---
In the end, IF you want to be an apologist for the past, then you best wear clothes, buy food, use only [products made in the US, Canada or Europe. Because otherwise you are promoting slave labor every time you buy something made in Thailand, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, just about any African, Asian, South American country, you know damn well the corporations are exploiting those people and yet you continue purchasing goods made there. You say you have no choice, BULLSHIT, buy used, demand American made products. If enough people demand and stop whining about a cross in a courtroom or a Christmas tree in the town square, you'd get stuff made in the USA, which would increase jobs, increase the tax base take the "load" off the upper class and everyone would get what they say they want. However, neither side wants that to happen because they enjoy bitching about the other side too much. Their identity is not in doing what is morally right and what is best for ALL PEOPLE of this nation and the world, but being "right" in their holiness and hypocrisy. That is THEIR identity, they will deny it, they will argue and call names and disregard the person saying it. BUT in the end it is the truth. And NEITHER SIDE can handle it, because they love being miserable and they love saying they are right and putting themselves above others.

 

Wow, pan.

The democratic party is controlled by the far left because it supports gun control? So do most Americans. Affirmative action in some limited form? So do most Americans.

I have no idea what you mean by "totally tax reliant" as opposed to a system of enforceable government regulation.

Most people who described themselves as democrats are not socialists. IMO, the current democratic party is as moderate as it has been in my lifetime.

 

You just proved my point, where did I say a damned thing about affirmative action and not supporting it? WHERE????? All I said was I was not going to be a hypocrite and be a "fake" apologist for my ancestors and the freedoms I enjoy because of that past. WTF does that have to do with affirmative action????? See you get out of what I said ONLY what you want and then decide what I meant. JUST F'N READ ALL OF THE DAMNED POST, NOT JUST WHAT YOU DEEM YOU NEED TO TO PASS JUDGMENT.

Do I hear you apologizing for supporting the exploitation of child and slave labor for buying goods made by those companies employing such horrendous things? NO. But you'll jump to the conclusion that I am against affirmative action, because I am honest about not apologizing for what I cannot change.

Tax reliant would be that they put BILLIONS of tax dollars into it while cutting social welfare programs or Veteran's benefits.

As for gun control, I think a MAJORITY are for sensible laws and not total abolition of guns as SOME on the LEFT would want us to believe. Automatic/semi auto weapons, no need for them. Grenade launchers, weapons that create massive deaths such as anti aircraft grenade launchers, flame throwers, etc (I am not well versed in guns and arms so forgive me) not needed. A cock and shoot rifle, a revolver, a single action shotgun, don't have issues with them, as I don't think a majority would. I doubt you speak for the majority, just as I doubt I do. But when you say a "majority" backs your opinions and you can use every poll you want just as the NRA and pro gun people would pull out just as many polls favoring what they say. I don't care about fake assed paid for polls. LET THE PEOPLE VOTE AT THE BALLOT BOX, that's where it matters most. Yet, if they don't vote the way YOU want them to they are ignorant and controlled by corporation BS, the Right if they lose elections, say it was the media's and unions fault. NEVER ONCE DOES ANYONE POLITICIAN PUNDIT WHATEVER, SAY THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN AND SHOW RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF EXCUSES WHY THEIR PARTY, THEIR POLITICS, THEIR POLICIES DIDN'T GET APPROVED.

Maybe, but when I first became aware of politics in the 70's and throughout the 80's the Democratic Party was preaching equality NOT being apologetic stupid white men. Somewhere along the way it became ok to call white men stupid and if they disagreed and didn't like it they "didn't get it" or "They WERE the stupid white man". When neither was true.

I don't see you correcting me about 1 thing I had to say about the Right.

Those are as I stated numerous times above, MY opinions, MY views and so instead of telling me what I am against tell me WTF YOU STAND FOR.

 

Combined, more self-identified Democrats are moderate (37%) or conservative (23%) than liberal.



As opposed to self-identified Republicans, the vast majority of whom are conservative


See the difference, pan?

--- merged: Nov 12, 2011 11:10 PM ---
Pan. I generally dont respond to emotional rants other than to say the current Democratic party is far from socialist or even extreme on most issues. I'll leave it at that.

And, caps are not necessary to make a point.

 

That's actually a pretty damn good post. I hope people take the time to read it before judging it.

The only two things that I took issue with are:
1. I don't think Jon Stewart is far left
2. You mention the far left and the far right compromising. But I don't believe people will compromise the truths that they hold dear. I will not compromise on issues that I believe are crucial to protecting the Constitutional rights that make this country a lone bastion of freedom in the world.

So ultimately, yes, this country will tear itself apart. It is so completely divided right down the middle that I don't see any sort of solidarity ever happening again.

 

pan, I agree with redux - I don't see any evidence that the democratic party is in the control of socialist far-left wingers. Quite the opposite

I suppose, if an alien who knew nothing of American politics suddenly showed up on the floor of Congress with the assumption that the two parties must be polar opposites of each other, the moderate positions of the Dem representatives would, by default appear far left in comparison with with the far right positions of the current Rep representatives. Things like gun control and financial services regulation would appear far left when in fact, the have always been the positions of moderate Democrats as well as moderate Republicans (anyone seen one of those lately?)

The fact that Republican ideology and politics have moved so far to the right they have dragged the left into the center, would be lost on someone just walking in on American politics.

Now, it would have made sense if the Democratic party veered farther left, in response, but they haven't - either due to Obama's own movement to the middle or out of a desire on the part of congressional Democrats to get things done in the name of compromise.

Funny thing is - the more Democrats move right in response, the further right the Republicans continue moving. Sort of a "Catch me if you can" game.

 

So why do you think Ron Paul (or the Tea Party) is a united and not a divider, given that a majority of Americans disagree with him on the most important issues - taxes, how to deal with the debt, govt regulation, a govt social safety net, etc?