Politics Why don't the Tea Partiers get arrested?

I must admit that I don't see a left wing in the USA. However the term "left" is relative. If everyone assumes they are somehow centrist, everything to the left is "left wing".

Out of interest, is Europe "far left"? How about Canada?

I don't really have a comment on the apologising for being white thing. I haven't come across it.

I don't understand the bit about putting billions in while cutting social welfare. Billions into what? Is this an argument about priorities? If so, I'd agree.

(Post was deleted, but "lone bastion"? Really? I don't think the USA is even that free)

 

Excuse me, Eddie? What are you referring to?

 

I never said Ron Paul was a uniter not a divider. This country is already divided, with conservatives on one side and liberals on the other. And if civil war or some semblance of civil war ever breaks out in this country, it'll be those two factions that make up the opposing sides.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true, Eddie. I believe most of the country is more moderate and centrist than the loud mouths screaming from either end would have everyone believe. Granted, the Republican politicians are listening to the loud mouths from the extreme right wing camp but I don't see where the Democrats have been falling in line behind their counterparts. As it's an election year coming up, Democrats may begin to heed them if it appears that they are grabbing the sympathies of those in the middle. If the middle stays out of the fight, the Democrats will stay their centrist course.

Which is why I don't believe the Republican's will prevail in the upcoming election.

Right, left, middle, I think everyone sees the problems which have developed. While the right and the left continue the battle over whose got the better solution, the greater voice in the middle will be demanding reasonable solutions that definitely will not include civil war.

So stop dreaming.

 

I didn't say "right" or "left" or "middle." I said conservative and liberal.

 

It's the Conserberals you have to watch out for, though! They're sneaky bastards!

Mind you, those Liberatives aren't much better.

 

Polls show me nothing as I posted. There is no emotion there but anger because posts like yours tell me what and how I am supposed to believe and you push polls and make claims and yet, you don't respond with what YOU believe. You just tell me where I am wrong and this poll says that and that poll says that ok, so? Where do YOU stand, or do you let the polls dictate how you feel?

Hmmmm Harris says I should feel this way, yet Gallup says I should disagree and there's that Heritage foundation poll saying this which is a joke, and then there is this USA Today CNN poll..... get it? What do the ELECTION polls say???? In the end those are the only ones that matter. If the GOP and Right fix elections so much issue 2 would have been a lot fucking closer in Ohio. There would have been more than what 5 relatively small counties supporting it.

But go ahead play your BS and tell me I'm all emotional and that I am just out there and the polls say this and whatever BS you deem to pass on, pass on. BUT in the end again, you failed to tell me what YOU stand for. You are quick to tell me what I am for and against and how I think and blah blah blah.... but you don't give your baseline. At least you KNOW where I stand and what I believe in.

Where do you stand what do you believe in? Do you believe white men should be apologists for the past while the buy products using slave labor and enjoy the freedoms and the goods that are on the market today? If you believe in the "apologize for the past" mentality, then tell me who made your computer, who made your monitor, who made your shoes, clothes and did you buy them brand new from the store, or did you buy them used from a thrift shop?

Also, I asked since you brought it up NOT me where the Affirmative Action question came from? You refused to answer because you couldn't find your answer in what I wrote. You so wanted me to have it there that you had to bring it up.

Again, MY views, IF I want to believe that the Democrats are controlled by the Far Left then that is my opinion. I am not some zombie fed on what the media tells me. If I want to believe that a party run by hypocritical BS apologists who think it is ok to call a white man stupid and blame a whole race for the ills of society then to me that's as racist and as idiotic as some of the far right saying that black votes don't count and "our blacks are better than theirs and darker too". Both are so fucking idiotic and racist that they'd be jokes if so many people didn't take the people that say those things so seriously.

The whole point that you miss is that there are what 300 million Americans and thus 300 million different voices and ideas, if compromise cannot be reached or worked for then we haven't a chance to survive.

I think as I said above, we must ultimately compromise or we shall perish. It's attitude, the "truths" you hold so dear are no better than the "truths" I hold or Roachboy holds. In the end they are OPINION, we can try to bs rationalize them to make them "truths" all we want but they are OPINION, until 100% truly put into physical real policy, then and only then will we know if they are "Truths". Since gaining a full 100% is impossible, there has to be a compromise, to get anywhere. Roach's 100% maybe totally opposite of yours, mine maybe 50/50 somewhere between the 3 there may lie that "perfect" scenario where we can all agree. Until then there will just be continued anger and growing hatred and further polarization (even though, people on the left refuse to admit it, while the people on the right want to flaunt it).

If there is no true leftism in the Dem Party, then why do some (meaning the left's talking head and policy makers) seem to want to say Clinton was too far right. He was a moderate in most aspects (Ruby Ridge and Waco were mistakes, I'll grant you that), but in all else he tried to do what he stated he would do, the GOP Congress went after him and prevented any true policy being made. But you didn't see many Dems standing up for him when the impeachment votes were tallied, he was being called "too far right", and yet the "Right" were the ones destroying him and making sure nothing went through.

The same with Bush the II, people in his party said he was too far left or too centrist, but he had to deal with a Democratic Congress that felt his policies were too far right and thus compromise had to be made. Thew second you make compromise (EVEN if it is the only way to get anything done) you are considered weak politically. Yet, compromise is the ONLY way to get anything accomplished if the president is of one party and congress is of another.

 

Pan...when you take a paragraph to rant about the slave reparations and the white man being the victim and somehow that it is a mainstream issue...

...you are doing what you are preaching against....playing the race card and practicing the politics of division.

No, I am not suggesting you are racist (dont go there), but how do you think this kind of talk brings people together?

Seriously, dude. What was the point of this rant paragraph?

 

I don't see enough distinctive between the terms to negate my point. Or are you saying that the middle is not the middle and associates itself with either the conservative right or the liberal left?

 

I didn't say ALL Dems, I said that those making policy were farther left than myself. They are the fake apologists that through their actions speak of hypocrisy. 100 years from now if this great nation we inherited still exists our progeny will be wondering how the Hell we could be so hypocritical. Apologizing for slaves that we never owned while buying goods made by exploited slave and child labor.

The problem is that TOO MANY in power on BOTH sides focus solely on today and the past instead of the FUTURE and keeping this country alive do our progeny 100 years from now. We are regressing in some areas instead of progressing.

Ohhh yeah you did catch me.... liberals are now wanting to be called "progessives"

 

Again with the "apologizing for slaves that we never owned while buying good made by exploited slave and child labor."

And I still dont understand your point. Who is apologizing for what and why are you so hung up on slavery?

 

You want to call it racist fine. That is MY VIEW MY WORDS AND I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE NOR BAQCK OFF OF WHAT I SAID. When Micheal Moore the great Progressive can sit there and write a book (no matter what the idea is) called "Stupid White Men" and when a party calls for "reparations" and goes out of their way to talk about the horrors of the past, that we raped and pillaged the Indians and took their lands and had slaves and were disgusting barbaric people, whilst those same people buy things made in countries using exploited slave and child labor solely because it's cheaper and what they can afford but they don't do anything then I'm not going to take seriously those who want to bitch about past evils have to say. If that is racist then ok, I'm a racist, because I see hypocrisy and bullshit rationalizations from people who believe they are better than everyone else and smarter and more ethical and more educated and more caring and whatever. Keep buying goods made by exploited slave labor and call me a racist...lol look in the mirror. I call it as I see it, you don't like the truth then do something to prove me wrong. Instead of marching on wall Street and crying about propane tanks being taken away, demand an end to slave labor in 3rd world countries, Stop buying products first hand made by exploited slave laborers.

Don't lecture me about racism until you change your buying patterns and demand the corporations stop exploiting the workers in other countries.

 

I didnt call it racist. I asked why you felt a need to bring up slavery from 150 years ago and how that defines Democrats or how it is relevant.

 

Seriously, I abhor hypocrisy and leaders in the Dem party that call for "reparartions" and apologies for our ancestors. I'd do a search for examples but I have a feeling you know exactly what I am talking about. \

BTW you seem to want to focus on one thing I said and not EVERYTHING I said. AND you continue to avoid telling me WTF DO YOU STAND FOR? last time I ask that question. If you do not answer it, the I can only have one assumption, you stand for NOTHING. At least I take a stand right or wrong, I have my stance and make it clear and if you choose to label me without explaining or at least saying what you stand for, your labeling me means nothing because there is no baseline from you to work with.
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From Wiki:

Accumulated wealth

In 2008 the American Humanist Association published an article which argued that if emancipated slaves had been allowed to possess and retain the profits of their labor, their descendants might now control a much larger share of American social and monetary wealth.[11] Not only did the freedmen and -women not receive a share of these profits, but they were stripped of the small amounts of compensation paid to some of them during Reconstruction. The wealth of the United States, they say, was greatly enhanced by the exploitation of Black slave labor.[21] According to this view, reparations would be valuable primarily as a way of correcting modern economic imbalance. The US Department of Commerce has calculated that in modern US dollars calculated for inflation and interest, slavery generated trillions of dollars for the US economy.

locahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slaveryust.

 

What leaders in the Democratic party are calling for reparations or an apology? I am just trying to understand why you are so hung up on this.

And on the other side, what recent presidents have issued executive orders prohibiting the federal govt purchasing goods made by child/slave labor in foreign countries? Granted, a small step, but do you need a hint?

I dont support reparations for slavery and I dont understand why you believe it is an issue. Nor do I believe the white man is a victim.

And I will be happy to discuss my position on any issue but I prefer that the discussion by less emotional.

 

Hmmmm wasn't there a movement in the 90's and early in the '00's for it. I seem to recall there being one. I also seem to recall a Micheal Moore book entitled Stupid White Men, and I seem to recall a bunch of bull hockey coming from people that in the late 80's until even today (although the movement peaked in the 90's because it got nowhere with the majority) this fascination with rewriting history to make our white ancestors in this country out to be racists and mass murderers of the Indians.

I even posted a wiki link for it, because what I did post doesn't show here very well.

I'd venture to say Clinton, Bush2 and Obama, but I don't see any Dem leaders demand it be upheld. Where's the public outcry, the marches and demonstrations against it?

I'm not asking you to be emotional I'm asking you to tell me where you stand. I'll even throw in a please this time, I won't beg. As I stated before, I show mine, right, wrong, based in reality or just my version of reality.... one knows where I stand what I believe.... people know where Eddie stands right wrong or indifferent based in reality or his, he states what he believes in... why do you refuse over and over to simply state your beliefs.

I don't ask or beg people to understand my views, don't care. I'll explain them, but I won't apologize for them especially to someone refusing to tell me his views. To me that shows disrespect, moreso than anything Eddie has ever done. It shows me you want me to explain my views and not consider it an attack, but you refuse to disclose your views and use bullshit excuses when pressed to do so.
I even asked a direct question and you refused to answer, Do you believe we should be apologists for our past? Do you currently buy products first hand made in countries with known human rights violations?

 

You crack me up, pan. Having to go back 15-20 years to justify your rant about reparations.

No, I do not believe we should be an apologist for our past and I am not aware of any Democratic leader that does (unless you count Michael Moore or Al Sharpton as leaders)...nor do I believe the white man is a victim.

I try to buy American when I can and my investments are in socially responsible and/or green mutual funds.

I also have actively protested against social injustice on numerous occasions and been arrested for it once, it that matters.

 

Funny this part was posted AFTER I answered the original post asking you for your view on this. It's cool though because I edit alot myself also. I just wanted to make this known since I did answer the original unedited post this came from.

where do I say there is a belief the white man is a victim ANYWHERE? I stated there was a movement to show he was an aggressor, which yes he was. I also stated there was a movement that his progeny should be apologetic for that past, which I vehemently disagree with. But no where do I say he was the victim.

You don't support reparations? Cool. It's an issue because there are SOME in the Democratic party that are very or in the past when given the chance were extremely vocal about it and acting like EVERY Democrat should or did hold that view. It was a reason I stepped away from the party, another was the way Congressional and Party leaders treated Bill Clinton when he was President. There were and there are leaders of the Dem Party that claimed he was too "moderate" as I have already talked about.

But I guess you deem the rest of everything I said not worthy of discussion instead you want to focus on my anger about being called a "Stupid White Man" and having to defend my ancestors. Yes, I am angry about that, yes, it was a reason why I left the Dem Party. NOTHING short of having Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and others who wanted to sue for reparations and wanted to rewrite history decide they were wrong about rehashing the past and demanding people who never had a link to slavery PAY reparations. (Because it was the taxpayer they wanted paying.)

Again, here is the wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery

 

If you feel a need to defend your ancestors, that is your issue, not mine.

If you want to talk about rewriting history, start with many conservatives suggesting that the country was founded as a Christian nation.

And I dont share your belief that Sharpton and Jackson are leaders of the Democratic party, given that neither one has ever been elected to office.

BTW, I did support the bill that Bush signed authorizing payment to black farmers who were discriminated against in violation of the law by the Dept of Agriculture in the 1980s....the 1980s, not the 1860s. Does that make white farmers the new victims....No.

https://www.blackfarmercase.com//Background.aspx

 

I just answered that as a reason along WITH how the party treated Clinton when he needed help as a reason why I walked away from the party. When Bill Clinton, the biggest money maker the Dems had EVER seen in that time period or before, was hung out to fry and it took GOP members to save him, and then he is called "too moderate" and "too conservative". Ya lost me. I'm done with your party because obviously your party had it's own agenda and my voice didn't matter.

They seem to have pretty powerful voices in the Dem Party. Again, where did I say the white man is a victim? Because I don't like the fact that there are some wanting to rewrite history to make the white man some evil entity, because I don't like a book titled Stupid White Men? where is that claiming victimhood? I agreed the ancestors starting this country and moving westward or owning slaves were wrong BY OUR standards today. At the time, the argument could be made they did what they felt was right and in doing so, we ALL have enjoyed the benefits of their evils.

Ok thank you, for finally giving a baseline. I applaud you on buying American and being socially aware with your mutuals. I also respect the fact you stood up and protested for your beliefs to the point it cost you freedom (no matter how short or lenient that arrest may have been (and I am not trying to demean that in anyway, just comes out wrong no matter how I say it), it was still a loss of liberty and freedom).
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I don't feel I have to defend them, again you miss my point that was A reason I left the party and refuse to support the party. I felt that there was a vocal element inside that demeaned my ancestors and I felt that that was uncalled for and could in no way support that view. When I saw that the Dem party REFUSED to hear voices who opposed that view, it showed me the Dems didn't care. BUT again that was 1 reason, the biggest was the treatment Bill Clinton received. The Dems knew what the GOP was doing at the time was BS and they could have stopped it, but they chose not to. They chose to cower and be cowards and lapdogs to the f'n right. Then they come out and talk about reparations and how great Micheal Moore's book "Stupid White Men" was and basically just waved a hand in disgust towards us that put Bill into office, that supported the party? We are supposed to fall into line and FORGET THAT??????? HELL NO, I will NEVER forgive or forget that the political party I supported threw the ONLY president I ever cared about and believed in under 6the fucking bus, then had people like Micheal Moore and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson ta;lking about how evil my ancestors were and how stupid we are. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT. And yes, it is emotional, yes I am passionate about my beliefs, I'm not some namby pamby that's going to sit there and smile while the party I love hangs the president I love out to hang for BULLSHIT reasons.

If that makes me irrational in your eyes and mind, truly I don't give a fuck.

that's a right winged issue and I dislike it just as passionately, but right now that issue came out of nowhere and I truly don't have much to say about it, other than it's bullshit and a reason why I will NEVER and have never supported the GOP. I prefer religion to stay out of politics and vice versa. I think the GOP has given the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells too much power. But the GOP supporters would argue that's not true. Just as the left argues it is not true that Sharpton, Moore and extremists have too much pull in the Democrat Party. It's all in one's perspective. In mine both are true. BUT that is JUST MY OPINION. quite frankly, we have spent far too long tonight rehashing the same bullshit and getting nowhere. You refuse to accept what I feel and my opinion whether it is based in fact or not, it's what I FEEL. Instead of respecting it, you call it emotional and brush it off but yet you keep it alive. I am not asking for, nor do I need your approval to feel what I do or believe what I do.

What office has Rove been elected to? What office has either Koch brother held? What about Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly, Faux News, Coulter? have any of them held any office? Are they powerful voices in the GOP? You call that one.

What does that have to do with white farmers? I can see where white farmers may have been upset, BUT if in 1980's there was (and obviously there was) illegal discrimination then yes, there should have been a reparation paid. BUT I would have made those who profited and those who did the discriminating pay NOT the tax payer who had nothing to do with it.