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Is Monogamy really THAT complicated?

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by ZombieSquirrel, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. I read the article, For youngsters, monogamy is 'complicated' and I was wondering how complicated it really is. How is it "fraught with issues"?

    I don't tend to do relationships, so really have no first-hand knowledge recently. When I was in a committed relationship many years ago, it was understood that it was sexually monogamous and I did not cheat on M in that manner. I do feel I cheated on him emotionally and intellectually once and that could have lead to an affair. I was really drawn to someone in my theater group. We talked all the time about actors, shows, directors and playwrights. These were not conversations I ever had with M. We were in Inherit the Wind together and I was Rachel and he was Hornbeck. Our director loved our "choices" in the scene with the two of us in the courtroom. It was like sweet naive Rachel was being seduced by the city slicker journalist. Hornbeck was almost pursuing Rachel and trying to convince her via intellect to denounce her father and come to the "dark side" of evolutionary thought. Our director said he could feel the power between us.

    We weren't acting. We had a connection, but I never pursued. So I can see how monogamy can be complicated.
     
  2. SuburbanZombie

    SuburbanZombie Housebroken

    Location:
    Northeast
    I don't understand how that makes it complicated.
     
  3. You're trying to commit yourself as a whole to someone. Where do you draw the line?
     
  4. chelle

    chelle Vertical

    I remember being with my ex and it was 3 years into our relationship. I met someone and we had an amazing connection. I started to develop a crush on him. He was my class mate in college. Anyways, I knew for sure that I didn't want to pursue anything because I really loved my ex. I wouldn't risk losing him just because there's a possibility/curiosity I have for someone else. I know it wouldn't be worth it and plus I was happy in a relationship. I just didn't think it was worth it. We were together 5 1/2 years by the way. I still care about him deeply even though I am with someone new.
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I don't think it's the monogamy in a relationship that's complicated; it's the responsibility.

    Responsibility is always complicated. I won't hold it against anyone who wishes to forego it all together.
     
  6. Poetry

    Poetry Totally Sharky, Complete

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    When I'm in a good relationship with someone, I tend to lose all desire for sexual contact with other men. My brain simply shuts off that part of me. If the relationship starts to go downhill and neither of us has decided to eventually end it, that part of my brain will start activating again. My arousal level around other men is how I can gauge the health of my current relationship.

    But that's me, and I know I'm a bit of a freak in that regard.

    I did, years ago while in an excellent relationship, meet a man who broke through my monogamy barrier on an arousal level just by his presence. I was shocked, but neither of us pursued. We went out earlier this year for the first time, seven years later. Great sexual chemistry, but it turns out he's not someone I'd actually want to date.

    I can see how it could get sticky for people who don't shut down like I do. You're surrounded by opportunities, options, potential "what-if"s, a new item on the menu. It's hard for many to look around and say "I'm with one person, one person only, and will not act on temptation, even if I know they would never know".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. SuburbanZombie

    SuburbanZombie Housebroken

    Location:
    Northeast
    You draw the line at sleeping with them.
    Just because sparks fly doesn't mean you are cheating on someone.
     
  8. So sex is the only way you can cheat on someone?
     
  9. Seer666

    Seer666 Getting Tilted

    It is in a court of law...
     
  10. PonyPotato

    PonyPotato Very Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    It's not according to at least one of my exes..
     
  11. And people cheat in relationships that are not affected by law.

    I guess I'm trying to get my head around what monogamy is and how it differs from person to person. I don't think we could all agree on what monogamy is....so it's getting complicated.
     
  12. Zen

    Zen Very Tilted

    Location:
    London
    A client of mine had an hierarchy of degrees of physical contact to determine the threshold above which he'd consider himself to be cheating. What's that all about?

    A male friend and I were talking last night about great friendships we can have with women which are qualitatively different from our friendships with other men On Account Of gender difference. He pointed out to me that his wife, with whom he's been monogamous for .. oh ... at least 40 years has those kind of friendships with guys. He called them 'conversations which sparkle in ways which can't with other guys'. What's this all about?

    Some girlfriends of mine have felt cheated on because of my job where, if needed, I explore issues of emotional and physical intimacy with clients. And I have sometimes felt cheatING. And I remember feeling decidedly uncomfortable when an ex girlfriend was with clients as a Sports Massage practitioner. What are these all about?

    In the light of the topic title, I'm exploring 'appropriateness criteria' for 'Feeling jealous' and 'Feeling cheated on'. When is it appropriate to say to Self "get over yourself", and when to say to the partner "what you are doing bothers me, WE need to talk about this", when to say "What you're doing bothers me and I'm packing my bags, period".



    My father died when my mother was ... feckit ... 51. She's now 85, without subsequent partner, because for her, she'd have been breaking the spirit of her monogamous relationship with my dad. "Until death do us part" meant, to her 'when both parties are dead.'

    I've had intimate conversations in which I'd fully participate to conclusion, then walk away with the feelings that I have violated some sacred unspoken rules of faithfulness. That I'd have truly have said "yeah but that's my job" didn't make me feel less like I had gone over a line. Oh and I just had a quick imagining of my ex oiling up some guy's glutes. Let's remove the potential 'bullet proofing' of 'job'. We'd be doing these things anyway, as people who care about people. I'd naturally dive into deep psychic embraces and she into deep muscle.



    If someone asked "Very well, then what shall we DO about all this?" My quickest 'answer' is "Both parties need to develop their own shared map of what the line is, how it works, and where it should be drawn, and under what circumstances should it change", and that it would have a strong 'Only Us'ness component. Mind you, this "My quickest answer" is not a shortened version of something I feel clear about. It is my quickest attempt to avoid finishing this post with a helpless, maybe even tragic, shrug.
     
  13. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Hah, really now?! Alright, let's talk monogamy and infidelity. And enough with the "cheating" term. Cheating is such a crock of shit term for infidelity anyway. Slang, I get it... but I still hate it. It makes it sound life is a game... and like someone is getting over on their current partner because it makes them happy. Now, pursuit of happiness is a big life goal, isn't it? Who wouldn't want that (within reason)? Following that rule, we should all be cheating as much as possible. And since deception is the actual crime here, we should be telling our partners about our exploits. A world of open relationships and safe-sex swingers wouldn't work given how the vast majority of people equate sex privileges to ownership... so here we are.

    The shackles of monogamy.

    /1960s

    But you get my point.

    Huh? That sounds creepy. I mean, I'm not committing "my whole self" to another person. I'm a freestanding human being with my own life to live. I've been married. I've been with my current girlfriend for more than a hot minute. Fuck, I'm a serial monogamist. I only have long term relationships because I find stability and buying major appliances really rewarding. But at no point has it ever been assumed that my sole purpose in life is to be with my partner and that other people are merely for business only. That's a weird version of solipsism. It's not even close. I think this is where couples fuck up the most. It isn't infidelity, it is failure to state needs and desires in a relationship. Somehow it's a lot easier to chat up another bird at the pub for a quickie back at her flat than it is to confront your partner of a decade and ask for them to go to a Megadeth concert with you, stop doing that thing they do with their fingernail clippings or engage in some freaky buttsex action once in a while.

    TFP is a dumping ground for people with that exact issue. How do I get my partner to do X Y Z? Talk to them.

    If you're in a relationship and can't handle the idea of your partner having fantasies about other people or even flirting with someone for fun when the situation presents itself, you need to drop the lipstick and put away the whoreskin suit. It's Goodbye Horses for your relationship if your partner isn't a well-preserved corpse or one of the Amish. As awesome as I am (I am pretty great), I am not the one person that completes my partner. They have intellectual and emotional needs that I can't satisfy (I'm pretty dumb) or don't satisfy in the manner that they prefer (I'm sometimes clueless).

    So, yeah, commitment means important things. Like paying bills, not getting herpes and letting your partner know what they can do to make you happy since, as Dr. Phil is wont to say, it takes two bases to build a bridge. If there is any cheating going on, it's you cheating yourself if you're in a relationship where you aren't revealing your wants and needs to your partner and you can't enjoy other people on an appropriate level.

    Relationships aren't a mystery, they're just the scapegoat. People need to open their mouths and say what they want. "We're going to build this thing together and these are the rules." I spent a good decade learning that. I feel like maybe I've bungled a fair number of my long term relationships because I wasn't swift enough to deal with my partner's requests when they spoke up and were all, "Hey, I need this out of you to be happy." It's been a painful lesson to learn but I've heard the older and wiser amongst us say that pain simply means you're doing the work. Nobody likes this answer because it's so simple and obvious, but it's the truth. You get what you ask for. So start asking. If you don't? Start over and ask someone else.

    TL;DR: Relationships are fine. People are scared and lazy.
     
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  14. curiousbear

    curiousbear Terse & Bizarre

    Plan9 So you know what is right for the whole world of human?

    The complexity lies in the unknowns & things that aren't agreed up on between two individuals in a relationship. You know what is cheating according to your partner and you respect it or clarify it

    A couple may agree that sleeping with others are fine as long as its not hidden from the other

    There are so many possibilities with human mind . . .

    I fantasize, watch and drool - That is not cheating because my SO knows and she doesn't mind it. But I cant go any further. I know her. I am responsible.
     
  15. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Also: Eat a dick, 15 minute limit.

    Goddamnit, if I wanted to type up everything I plan to submit here in MS Word, I'd get a fucking Blogger account instead.

    Uh, yeaaah, of course I'm not talking about all of humanity. That would be ridiculous. Did I not just cover that? I'm pretty sure I stated that couples make up their own rules. Couples make up rules about, well, everything. From who does what chores to whether or not they can accept their partner's vices (booze, weed, porn, guns, knitting, cannibalism, etc.), how to spend money for toys and vacations--you name it.

    I also mentioned that the biggest "relationship problem" is a lack of communication, Universal Answer #1 of Tilted Life and Sexuality.
     
  16. Redlemon

    Redlemon Getting Tilted

    Location:
    New England
    I was dating two girls at the same time when I was in high school, for a couple of weeks. I didn't intend to. It really really stressed me out, even though neither relationship was past kissing. Since then, no cheating, and I've been with my wife for 23 years.
     
  17. ace0spades

    ace0spades Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I have had the discussion with my s/o where we both agreed that monogamy is something that neither of us thinks we can achieve over our entire lives, and we've told ourselves we will be honest with each other if the time comes that we want to explore other things. We're both intensely committed to each other despite this admission. Hell, she even has a profile up on a dating website where she's looking for a girlfriend. Monogamy / polyamory aren't dichotomous, there is a whole spectrum of relationship choices both sexual and emotional that can be explored. Monogamy just seems so... stuffy and unrealistic. At least to me and my s/o.
     
  18. SuburbanZombie

    SuburbanZombie Housebroken

    Location:
    Northeast
    For me, yes. Every other form of "cheating" is BS in my opinion. More like control issues.
     
  19. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    So it's cool for your wife to engage in an online-only relationship with someone? Send naked pictures? Husky phone calls?

    Penis in the vagina used to be only the definition of rape. Let's be realistic.
     
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Let's not forget: dating, hugging, holding hands, bumping and grinding, kissing, spooning, dry humping, and—oh!—fondling.