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Shop or not?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by bow35, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    While it is true that a company which is continually unprofitable will eventually go out of business, profit is not what's important in a crisis. In the short run it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice profitability for the cash flow which is necessary to chase the wolf away from the door and stay in business, especially in these times, when many businesses are so highly leveraged. Cash flow is especially important for the small "mom and pop" businesses that don't have easy access to credit. My dad's hardware store is unprofitable four months out of the year, but is profitable for the year as a whole. He really has to scramble for cash, sometimes.

    There's an old ditty that applies: "Profit cures a lot of ills, but cash flow pays the bankers' bills."

    Leveraging often just allows a business to get deeper in debt before it fails, sometimes spectacularly.

    Zero debt, oodles of cash = why I love my Apple stock.:)

    Lindy
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Regarding the profit thing (this isn't just directed at you, Lindy): The purpose of a business is to make a profit (non-profit organizations notwithstanding). Isn't asking a company to not worry about profit like asking government to not worry about legislation?

    I know the issue is perhaps the obsession of maximizing profits at the cost of some pretty terrible decisions, but there is a difference between recognizing the profit motive and acknowledging corporate social responsibility.
     
  4. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Here in Yankeeland, the "arts" boils down to multiplex cinemas and overpriced concerts by overrated musical performers - hardly in need of government support.

    A shame really but there is little demand and what government contributions are made to the arts is always the target of rotten tomatoes being flung from the right. "NOT WITH MY TAXPAYERS DOLLARS YOU DON'T!"

    I have no opinion about the contribution of the arts to economic health and well being (if that's the discussion) as I have so little experience with it.

    A magnificent Arts and Entertainment facility opened up here in Roanoke, VA two years ago (The Taubman Center for the Arts). A grand venture costing beaucoup dollars. Funding was provided through local government and private donation and investment. The battle on the local funding side was brutal, but the small and ardent faction of art lovers in the community won out in the end.

    The place is empty most of the time. No one cares. I expect it to close it's doors soon.
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's a shame, really, Joniemack. The U.S. has produced some of the finest artists in the world in all disciplines. It's a shame if there are other highly talented people who cannot find an outlet to produce due to lack of funding.

    But, hey, at least you guys have a really kick-ass military! And Nascar! And monster truck rallies! And creatively bankrupt blockbusters! And creatively bankrupt bestsellers! And creatively bankrupt #1 hits!

    Need I go on?

    No...?
     
  6. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    It depends on how long the crisis lasts. Cash flow dries up eventually. The smaller and more tightly run a company, the quicker the drying up. Businesses which focus on sustained profitably attract investors. Investors rarely stay on board once they see the wall at the end of the cash flow tunnel.

    But Apple is also very profitable. A net 3rd quarter profit of $3.25 billon last year.
     
  7. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Perhaps in your locale, that's what the people want. But I can think of a number of smaller cities with vibrant theater (Knoxville, TN), art (Chattanooga, Peoria, San Diego), food (Little Rock, Shreveport, Cheyenne) and music (Nashville, Memphis, Minneapolis) scenes. And those are just the ones where I have personal knowledge. When you get to the bigger cities - New York, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Houston - you usually find at least two out of the four in one form or another.

    Honestly, I think that the problem lies more in suburbia than anywhere else in the US. Suburbia is homogenized almost militantly. But there are pockets of folks doing interesting things all over the place. Perhaps Virginia just isn't interested in art as much as they are music or theater.
     
  8. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I live in rural Southwest Virginia. In Northern VA, outside of DC, it's a different story. Larger cities and even smaller, more cosmopolitan cities such as Charlottesville, VA have an active and prosperous arts community.

    The appreciation and support for the Arts is definitely focused in certain areas. I'd suggest they're areas populated by those with a more liberal mindset. Affluence and a higher standard of living doesn't hurt, either. I have no idea how much support these areas receive from their local government and community but where there is a desire for the arts, the arts will thrive.

    I don't know if its only my perception based on my sorry-assed environment or reality, but I sense desire and support for the arts shrinking nationally much as it has for secular social programs as the battle to eliminate "artsy-fartsy and bleeding heart liberal crap" grows stronger,

    I was in the Greater Atlanta area (Decatur specifically) recently and was pleasantly surprised to see that support for small venue entertainment arts at least, is in no danger of petering out.

    Collectively, as a nation, I don't see the arts on top of any priority list here in the US.
     
  9. bow35

    bow35 Vertical

    A company, say a book publisher that publish what they think is good litterature before what seems to be profitable for the moment. Such a company can be legendary in time and survive a crisis much better then that bookpublisher who just did pleasing the market for quick cash.
     
  10. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon assuredly the cause of the angry Economy..

    Location:
    FREEDOM!
    how is a company going to survive a normal economy, much less a crisis, if it isn't out to make money?
     
  11. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    In a perfect world.....

    Then again, there is still good literature to be had. There's a niche for beer and a niche for champagne. The smart publisher finds his niche, markets to his niche, delivers to his niche, and profits from his niche. Not everyone has a taste for champagne, bow.
     
  12. bow35

    bow35 Vertical

    Making monney to end meens is not the same as to make profit.
    --- merged: Jan 20, 2012 8:49 AM ---
    And not everyone has a taste for profit, Jonie
     
  13. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon assuredly the cause of the angry Economy..

    Location:
    FREEDOM!
    i think it does, actually. maybe i'm wrong
     
  14. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed

    I'm waiting for Baraka_Guru to blast the publisher bit.

    Paper costs money, ink costs money, editors cost money, legal screeners cost money, man-hours costs money, shipping costs money, product placement costs money, marketing cost money, AUTHORS cost money.

    so, how exactly can a publisher survive without a profit (or any other company)?
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Even small press publishers putting out niche and/or riskier literary titles won't give a green light unless there is a good chance of at least breaking even. In many cases, it's a no go if there is little indication of a market or past performance of previous similar titles.

    It's a rare publisher that will publish a book on literary merit alone.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. bow35

    bow35 Vertical

    Very cynic of you two. Satisfied with breaking even economically and maybe make a revolution culturewise or being motivated by profit and just satisfy a market, is two COMPLETLY different things.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Don't get me wrong. Breaking even is satisfying, but I can't think of a single literary press who wouldn't rather do whatever they can to make a profit. So while they're different things (I wouldn't consider them as having a complete break from one another, however), they often occur simultaneously. A profitable literary press, after all, is fully capable to producing an increasing number of literary works whilst ensuring the author gets paid.

    This isn't cynicism. This is realism.

    Literary presses have different standards as multinational publishers built on the bestseller model. Literary presses aren't looking for bestsellers; they are, however, looking for artistically rich works for which they know there is a readership.

    Literary presses are businesses too.
     
  18. bow35

    bow35 Vertical

    I edited before you answered. My point is that ecnomical profit doesn't satisfy me and is in no way my motivation in life. And it whouldn't change if I became a publisher.
     
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You know that one use of profits is to reinvest in the business, right? If you were a publisher of fine literary works, wouldn't you like to earn a profit so that you could stabilize/improve/expand your business or otherwise know you could operate it successfully into perpetuity?

    You seem to want to separate the two: earning a profit and doing something purposeful. These often go together.
     
  20. bow35

    bow35 Vertical

    No, but investing an unexpected profit in promoting more of what I like/belive in, yes.