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Politics Donald Trump, POTUS

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Chris Noyb, Nov 10, 2016.

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  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I sense a shift in global power...especially since Trump seems to have surreal connections to Russia (and don't tell me you haven't seen this lately :confused:)

    Don’t Retreat into Fortress America
     
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Choosing to ignore/downplay the worst on the right because of the worst on the left is a false dilemma.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Under different circumstances, I would not be as concerned about the alt-right, but Steve Bannon in a position of significant influence in the White House changes the equation.

    While Bannon may not personally hold views that are racist and/or anti-semitic, his politics of promoting "nationalism" provides the cover for the worst of the far right white supremacists/white nationalists.

    more: http://qz.com/841036/is-steve-banno...ts-to-rebrand-racism-as-american-nationalism/

    And to add to the concerns and fears, I would point back to this:

    On the issue of growing right wing extremism (RWE) and acts of violence/terrorism, you might want to check out recent studies at U.S. Military Academy's Combating Terrorism Center (http://bit.ly/2eV3a8q), the University of Maryland's START (Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism) Center (http://bit.ly/2fvoUEd), and the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University (http://bit.ly/2gtapVx).
    Nothing good can come out of the alt-right and its more extreme followers being further emboldened.

     
  4. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Again, I don't know what you are talking about.


    Again, I don't know what you are taking about.

    Your particular hatred of the so-called left really skews how you see things. You ask me to "look in the mirror", I again ask you to do the same. I can see by biases and I work at adjusting them. I wonder if you can see yours and how they skew your view of things?
     
  5. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    So while I have no real input on the whole white nationalist issue (not enough knowledge to form an opinion, nor the time/will to look into it in detail), I thought this article would be of interest to both sides in this thread:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069469
     
  6. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    The regressive left in the EU is the same as the regressive left in the US. They're both driven by the same social justice based worldview that says the Jews are not only white but ultra-white, the whitest of whites, who oppress the entire world and are committing genocide, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing. They both view the very existence of the Jewish state as an intolerable act of white european colonialism.

    My foremost experts ARE the foremost experts in the world, are supported by hate crime statistics (as shown by Amcha's collection thereof), and the SPLC as I have repeated shown is not only not-credible but so corrupt they accepted money from a literal hate criminal who they continue to give a free pass to.

    I repeat: Claiming that Ayaan Hirsi-Ali and Maajid Nawaz are dangerous extremists while giving a free pass to actual criminals and violent groups is the very definition of not-credible.

    You do realise I literally just quoted the foremost expert on anti-semitism in Europe calling bullshit on that very explanation in that very post, right?

    You basically just proved my point about anti-semitism for me by acting it out. Thanks.

    Going senile Redux? Or just so used to casually branding everyone who disagrees with you as literally hitler that you can't even remember when you do it anymore?

    Again: Does this mean you've changed your mind about feminism too?


    Trying to compare trolls saying antagonistic and shitty things with a level of violence so widespread, so institutionalized, so severe, that even MPs from a major political party need police protection from their own fellow MP's is a false equivalence.

    I'm not ignoring or downplaying the worst on the right because of the worst on the left. I'm saying that the worst of the furthest most extreme right is still just saying shitty things while the mainstream of the left is doing actually violent things without any meaningful opposition or even admission of their existence or the scope of the problem.


    Go read every thread on feminism on TFP where I provide mountainous piles of evidence regarding feminism's conduct and actions in the real world and you, Baraka, et al respond by handwaving it away and saying "that doesn't count".

    If you want to claim that the Alt-Right is in its entirety and to it's core fundamentally a white supremacist movement fine, you're perfectly within your rights to make that claim, but the very act of making that claim means that you must accept all of my arguments about Feminism.


    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" -Upton Sinclair

    In all seriousness I believe you. I believe you genuinely don't understand and don't remember any of this. Because that's what's required of you to be a loyal member of the Party. You need to do more than believe black is white, you need to know it unquestioningly, and to forget that things were ever any different.

    There's got to be some kind of award for getting this meta. You're bragging about being aware of your biases and working at adjusting them while simultaneously engaging wholeheartedly in your biases to the point you've purged from your mind the very memory of denying the exact argument you now support.


    ======
    ======

    Let me put this to all of you another way, something more succinct:

    The very people who are now writing all of the articles posted here are the same ones who have spent years leading the greatest upsurge in anti-semitic violence since just before the Holocaust spreading everything from blood libel to claims that the Jews are actually Khazars.

    And all of the people sharing those articles and panicking about the "alt-right" are the people who have at best been utterly ignoring the violence I've linked you all to, and on average committing it.

    So forgive me if I suddenly find myself boggling at the fact that I now live in the twilight zone and all of the people who've been actually doing violent anti-semitic things, or just shilling for and ignoring those that do them, suddenly seem to think that a couple of douchebag trolls saying shitty things are the end of the world.

    It's just like when people act like Islamophobia is the single greatest crime wave this country has ever experienced... while utterly ignoring that the rate of anti-semitic hate crimes is quadruple that of islamophobic crimes.

    And that's not even getting into the fact that my people are being ethnically fucking cleansed from western fucking europe. I mean jesus christ, every one of you talks about oppression and patriarchy and racism but you're literally watching tens of thousands of people forced out of western countries because of mass violence and bigotry and just... ignoring it. At BEST you act like it's somehow equivalent to Tila Tequila and some fringe shock jocks saying shitty stuff to get a rise out of you.

    I don't know how to get what that feels like across to all of you. I wish I could just plug us both into a machine and let you feel what it's like to experience the College Democrats, Student Labor Action Project, and National Organization for Women to go from talking big game about *isms to cheering a speaker who claims your people murdered babies and used their blood to make matza.

    I wish I could let you feel what it's like to know that you might live to see your people driven from their native lands a second time, quite possibly by a nuclear strike.

    I wish I could let you feel what it's like to watch the entire fucking world slide back into the exact same things that you studied growing up. The same accusations of controlling the banks, media, and government. The same accusations of blood libel. The same accusations of being behind wars and terrorist attacks. The same justifications of "Oh that's not anti-semitism that's just anti-<excuse goes here>".

    I wish I could let you feel what it's like to watch all of the worst and most violent anti-semites of the last decade suddenly acting like they care about racism, like a handful of shock jocks saying some asinine shit is the end of the world, and continuing to use that "alt-right" boogeyman they've created as a smear against their former victims.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  7. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Same old shit of putting your "sources' and "experts" above all others, regurgitating right wing talking points, ignoring any facts that challenge your rigid ideology and sinking to personal insults.

    You are clearly not open to an honest discussion and are simply excusing, ignoring or deflecting from the hate and intolerance of the alt-right and its band of hard line white nationalists (and old line white supremacists hangers on).

    How anyone can watch this video and the intolerance in Richard Spencer's remarks with the cheering and the Nazi salutes by his followers and not see it for what it is is beyond my understanding.


    "We dont gain anything by their (other races) presence....America was, until this last generation, a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation, our inheritance, and it belongs to us...."
    Carry on with your right wing crusade. I want nothing more to do with it and the manner in which you engage with others here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  8. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    You did literally the exact thing one of the top experts on anti-semitism in the entire world explicitly described and you got called on it. You tried to claim a group that literally took blood money from a literal criminal who literally believes that transgender people need to be eradicated, and still continues to completely ignore her crimes and her hate organization, was a "credible" source.

    Pure projection.
     
  9. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Take your hate up with someone else.

    And, I apologize in advance to the moderators if I overstepped the line in my response.
     
  10. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    And this, right here, is exactly what I called at the start of this. First you create a boogeyman then you accuse everyone who you dislike of being part of it. First you equated "alt-right" with neonazis and white supremacists. Then you tried to smear Bannon as a neonazi white supremacist even though everyone including ultra-liberal jews and jewish ex-employees who disliked him were calling bullshit on that smear campaign, after that you started calling me an alt-right neonazi white supremacist.

    It's the red scare and salem witch trials all over again. "I don't like you, you must be a commie!"
     
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    First you claim there is no alt-right until you see someone who self-identifies as such. It is there for you to see and you wont.

    Then you ignorantly or intentionally misrepresent what I stated about Bannon; not that he is racist or anti-Semitic but that he is a nationalist who personally and through Breitbart, gives cover to those even more hardline white nationalists like Spencer and others and supported by the old line white supremacists. What I said about Bannon is what former Breitbart employee, Ben Shapiro, said. He also spoke out about the rise of anti-Semitic hate speech on line and personal hate-filled emails against him by Trump supporters.

    Please refrain from such gross misrepresentations of my posts or making false accusations against me in the future or I will ask the moderators to delete any such distortions or accusations. (others have made similar observation about the manner in which you distort their words).

    And finally, on the issue of violence vs words, particularly in the US, the FBI and other experts cited have documented how the violence from right wing white nationalists groups and/or self-proclaimed anti-government militias have been far greater in number in recent years and a far greater threat than any from the left.

    I see no point in further discussion with you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  12. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    And now you've devolved to the level of flat out lying about what I said. You realise it's trivially easy to just go back a few pages and link to where I explicitly said something completely different not once but twice, right?

    Again, you do realise that it's trivially easy to go back to YOUR old posts and link to where you repeatedly talk about white supremacism and anti-semitism again and again and again and again and again. You spent multiple pages harping on how "alt-right = white supremacist neonazi" and how Bannon was one of THE pillars of the alt-right.

    Also once again you have incredible nerve to do something like this. You're accusing me of misrepresenting what you said the very paragraph after you flat out lie about what I said, very explicitly, twice.

    You're really going to play that card in the same post as you provably and explicitly flat out lie multiple times about literally everything both of us have said? After you've gone out of your way to bluntly call me a neonazi and white supremacist who would fit right in with nazi-saluting white supremacists?

    That's twice in a single post that you've done the very thing you accuse me of. I'm reminded of a simplified explanation of socjus cult tactics: SJW's always lie. SJW's always double down. SJW's always project.

    You're engaging in the same tactics abusers use right now: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

    You haven't discussed anything with me this entire thread. The only thing you've done is spread a hateful libelous smear that multiple jews including one of the most ultra-left wing people out there have condemned as baseless and then after I repeatedly hammered that through your skull you switched to smearing me as an alt-right neonazi white supremacist.
     
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    You have now, for the second time, distorted my posts demonstrating your lack of credibility once again.

    I think it is time for the moderators to close this discussion before you post more distortions of the posts of others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  14. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto


    -+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-
    Closed until further notice. Moderation pending.
     
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